Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

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News topic du jour:

Beef emits 31 times more CO2 per calorie of food than tofu does. Doing without beef from live cattle is hard to imagine, but the same was true of coal 100 years ago https://t.co/52PrrK4BLm

— The Economist (@TheEconomist) October 6, 2021

Podcast Questions:

1. Canadian beef now requiring warning label [19:27]

Paul says

Hey, Robb and Nikki

I’m a long time listener and love all the amazing information you guys provide. It has been instrumental in my health journey.

It was just recently announced that the Canadian government will now start putting warning labels on foods high in sugars, sodium and saturated fats. I agree with warning labels for sugars, but fear that putting a warning label on beef products may have a detrimental affect on the industry. What’s your thoughts?

Thanks

Paul

2. GABA [25:40]

Lindsey says

Hello

I’d love to hear you talk about GABA supplement. Theres a product sold by Ned CBD that is called Mello – has magnesium and helps you relax/sleep. I love it and wanted to share with my Dad who struggles with good sleep. He’s concerned about this ingredient and won’t take it, he’s had A-fib surgery. Really appreciate your insight!! Thanks, love the show and your information!

3. Paleolithic-Era Average Life Expectancy [27:54]

Rob says:

Hi, I’ve been following your work and others’ in the field of ancestral health for many years now. I would like to think I’ve reached a point of knowledge/information saturation where I now only listen to very few podcasts in this genre, yours being my favorite because I really appreciate your logic and sense of humour.

I’ve heard a lot about paleolithic-era short average life expectancy, high infant mortality rates (and death due to accidents/traumas), absent of chronic diseases in hunters-gatherers who get to live into old age.

My question is very simple, couldn’t it be that these are all very much related? Putting it bluntly, that high infant mortality + deaths from accidents/traumas are significantly “naturally selecting” out those who will otherwise live on and develop chronic diseases in the future (as I’m pretty sure all living organisms rarely just die randomly in nature). That they simply lived/live in such unforgiving environments that chronic diseases couldn’t be afforded to manifest, and that it might be a survival bias behind what’s more of a correlation than a causation?

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

Climate-Change Censorship: Phase Two

Podcast Questions:

1. Protein For Kids [21:30]

Andrea says:

Hello Robb and Nicki, love the podcast and really appreciate the time and effort you guys put into your work for my benefit. My question is, how much protein is appropriate for children at different ages? I ask this because I understand that as an adult I need 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass, but when I look at the googles for info on kids protein, it says half a gram per pound. This surprised me as I just assumed they would need more because they are growing. The sources I looked at were not where I normally go for my health advice so I am unsure if they are being influenced by the vegan agenda or if I am really feeding my kids too much protein. Any clarification you have would be great.

2. My Mattress Coil Is Transmitting Radio Waves Into My Brain [26:29]

Craig says:

Hello Robb and Nicki

Long time listener from back in the day with Matt, I stuck around like a leach as I had nowhere else to go…

One of my wife’s health “fill in the blank” people stated that coils in box springs can cause cancer as they magnify the radio waves coming from the outside world, or Mars.  You remember the movie Mars Attacks, it can happen. My background in electronics states that the opposite will happen, it will dampen the waves like a Faraday Cage. So what gives?  Here’s the link:  https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/left-sided-cancer-blame-your-bed-and-tv/

Thanks guys!!!

(Niki, we can actually hear you now, most of of the time)  Yea!!!!

3. Bioenergetic View of Health [33:58]

Tim says:

Hey Robb, first just want to mention, I’ve been a huge fan for years. I’ve read Wired to Eat and Sacred Cow, have listened to many of your podcasts, and I just love you as a human even though we’ve never met. I could tell you have a really big heart and you genuinely want to help the world to the best of your ability.

To my question:

I’m curious about your thoughts on Ray Peat’s bioenergetic view of health. Maybe some context for listeners, the bioenergetic view, at a high level, is about increasing energy at the cellular level and decreasing stress, which in turn, would increase your metabolism. Increasing energy/metabolism gives the body more resources to perform all the necessary functions the body needs to perform (i.e. digestion, healing, fighting illness, etc.).

To do this, one of the main things he recommends is to eat sugar since that is the most preferred form of fuel that our cells use to convert into energy. The sugars that are generally recommended are simple sugars, like sucrose, which is found in fruit, fruit juice, honey, and white sugar. He recommends these sugars because they are easily absorbable, digestible, and converted into energy. He believes low blood sugar increases stress hormones (like glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol), increases free fatty acids, and increases tissue breakdown and fat release to provide fuel for the body. This leads to low energy/metabolism/thyroid function and ultimately puts us in a chronically stressed state. He also argues that the problem is not sugar, but everything else that we consume alongside the sugar in our modern diets, particularly PUFAs being the most destructive to our bodies.

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download Transcript Here (PDF)

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

Democratic Senators call on messaging apps WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal to address “misinformation”

Obesity in late adolescence and incident type 1 diabetes in young adulthood

Podcast Questions:

1. 2 Meals A Day [12:05]

Ryan says:

Huge fan of sacred cow. I like eating 2 meals a day but after listening to book I’m trying to increase my protein to 180 to 200 grams a day. I’m 6’1 210 lbs. Is it beneficial to eat 90 grams in each meal or is that two much for my body to process correctly for optimal absorption? Should I spread it out? Thanks

2. Putative blood flow issues [15:40]

Charles says:

Hi Robb and Nicki, long-time listener here. I have been following Robb since I was 18, almost ten years ago! Thank you for your work.

Background: 6 feet tall, male, 142 lbs, 28 years old. Lenient paleo diet for almost 10 years supplemented with 0.5-1 packet LMNT daily depending on weather/exercise load, generally great sleep hygiene, devote a lot of effort to getting in the sun every day, weights 2x/week, 45 min bike ride at least 2x/week. Recent blood work came back excellent (just the standard LDL, HDL, Hem A1C, Vit D, thyroid stimulating hormone, hepatic enzymes). I do seem to have issues with circulation though, which I think may be related to the problem I describe below. My extremities go numb easily, and when it’s cold I have a few finger tips that lose color/sensitivity for extended periods of time after the others have returned to normal temperature.

The problem: My erections have decreased in strength noticeably in the past two years. The problem usually isn’t so severe that it prevents sex (though a few times it has), but it certainly decreases its quality for both parties involved on a regular basis.

Potentially relevant circumstances surrounding the problem: A little over two years ago (when the problem began) I ended a bad relationship, started a new **amazing** one, moved twice, had a very bad car accident, had a very bad cycling accident, lost my grandmother, helped my mother through a traumatic incident, etc. I’d like to point out that this was Winter-Summer 2020, need I say more? It was a whirlwind of a year. I dealt with it in healthy ways (amping up the exercise and protein consumption) and unhealthy ways (picking up a 1-2 drinks before dinner habit that I’ve since decreased to just on weekends; this decrease happened 6 months ago).

Should I talk to a therapist instead of sending this in to a podcast? Probably, but why not both? I’m hoping you and Nicki might be able to connect some dots I haven’t.

3. Functional Dyspepsia [21:36]

Cristi says:

I love your show and the dynamics between the two of you. I’d love to join “the rebellion” when I can afford it. What do we know in natural health about “functional dyspepsia?” I just had an upper endoscopy to diagnose the cause of a burning sensation in my stomach just under my right ribcage usually right after eating/while eating that seems to respond to an amount of food rather than any particular food. Before this, the gastro had me do a stool test that was negative for H. Pylori. They took biopsies during the upper endo, but the doctor says he doesn’t expect to find anything. He said he saw irritation in the stomach lining and it was probably caused by “functional dyspepsia” which was an imbalance of acid in the stomach. He said the causes of this could be different things, including stress (which I admittedly have a lot of, but I do what I can to control it) and that otherwise, causes were unknown, but that I could just take Pepsid! How long? Oh, maybe forever…Needless to say, I’m not doing that. SO, if all I know is that the acid is “imbalanced,” how do I balance it? At the risk of making this too much longer, my diet, exercise, and supplement regimen are all along the lines of what paleo-centric gurus recommend, so none of the other causes of this “disfunction” (NSAID use, fried/unhealthy fat foods, alcohol excess) make sense. I’m not celiac, but I don’t eat gluten and dairy because they just don’t feel great. I’m thinking of continuing to take probiotics and add a functional medicine supplement with aloe, licorice root, marshmallow root, NAD etc. to maybe calm the irritation? My only other thought is that maybe I’ve been taking too much of a natural allergy supplement that has quercitin (400 mg per two pills) -3 pills twice a day-but I doubt that’s it, and after stopping it for five days before this procedure as they required, I really noticed my allergies kicking in. The problem is, I’m 5’5, 118-120, and closer to 118 with what I’m able to eat without feeling discomfort. I have to stop before I’m satisfied completely. I wake up at night hungry, and I can’t go back to sleep, and I know 118 is too light for me. I weight train 3X per week, and I’m active all of the other days. I’m a highschool teacher, so I’m not really sedentary, either. I’m pretty low carb with starchy carbs (about a cup of sweet potato or rice) only included at dinner. THANK YOU!

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download Transcript Here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio.

Nicki: The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney plus.

Nicki: Good morning. And welcome back to another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. How are you today, hubs?

Robb: Good. You had me have drinkus interruptus.

Nicki: Drinkus interruptus is you’re bringing the mug to the mouth and I ask you a question.

Robb: Exactly that is drinkus interruptus.

Nicki: Hope you all are doing well. We are in another week of rain and the beautiful Northwest Montana territory.

Robb: You’re so full of shit.

Nicki: We are itching for some sun, getting very little. I don’t know what we need to do about it, but…

Robb: Move. Again.

Nicki: This is the reality. No, we’re not moving. We are here, just we’re ready for the sun. What else?

Robb: I’ve got nothing.

Nicki: All right. Let’s see here. Inside the health rebellion community, we do have… Well, as I mentioned before, our book club just started last week, so we’re in the middle of The Book of Joy. Anybody can join at any time and catch up. It’s a great, great read, people are really enjoying it. We also have another several upcoming events led by rebels this summer. This week we are in the middle of a seven day breathwork challenge, on June 22nd we have a food preservation workshop, and then the whole month of July we will be doing a rucking challenge. So lots of fun stuff coming up inside the healthy rebellion community. If you’d like to get in on any of that, be sure to join. And you can do that at join.thehealthrebellion.com.

Nicki: Let’s see. I’m trying to think if there’s any other updates or newsworthy items. No.

Robb: I don’t think so. Lots of good activity in the rebellion and all that good stuff. So, yeah.

Nicki: Okay. What do you have for us for a news topic today?

Robb: Two news topics. One, the title is “democratic senators call on messaging apps WhatsApp, Telegram, and Signal to address ‘misinformation’.” And I don’t want people to get hung up, so the title is democratic senators. There are Republican Senator in this too, so don’t… God, people just freak out. Oh my God, my team’s being called out. Well, both teams suck and… They really suck. So I don’t even know quite… It seems so obvious that this is such a terrible idea that I’m not really… I’m hesitant in some ways to even bring it up, because well obviously it’s a bad idea. These folks, in addition to the already onerous process of every single thing on social media being somehow subjected to the scrutiny of “fact checking” and frequently it just being flat ass wrong. The fact checkers are not actually subject matter experts on various topics. And this is particularly germane to health, medicine…

Nicki: And the fact checkers are frequently not objective. They are…

Robb: That’s a whole other side. I’m just talking about basic competence. They’re not even in the realm of having competence. Then we get to the whole regulatory capture deal and who’s funding them and all that stuff. And now in addition to that, there are folks in our illustrious governmental structure that want our messaging apps to be regulated similarly. So that whatever Nicki and I are sharing, or I’m sharing with someone else, or all of y’all are sharing between each other, has some sort of regulatory oversight. So it’s like, “Hey Robb, that thing you mentioned, wasn’t quite accurate. And you should really think about modifying your position on that.”

Nicki: Hey, Robb, when you said that cows are good for the environment, that wasn’t quite accurate and you need to start saying that cows are bad for the environment and that…

Robb: Meat causes cancer.

Nicki: Yes.

Robb: And plant-based is the only one true way to address health, environmental, and ethical issues. It’s a beautiful illustration of where this drives off a cliff. And so I just want to put this on folks’ radars. And it’s ironic, there’s a sub tagline, particularly in Hispanic communities. So they’re really going to target Hispanic communities in this push to make sure that those folks get this right. And a big part of the reason for that is Hispanic communities are a massive swing vote one way or the other. They’re an interesting mix in that Hispanic voters can go conservative or more progressive based off of a variety of factors. They tend to be more family based, tend to be more Catholic oriented and whatnot. So have a conservative base to it. But also interestingly tend to have an openness to more socialized healthcare and stuff like that. So, interesting demographic really that is growing and is really important to make sure that those people have the correct thoughts.

Robb: So I just wanted to put this on everybody’s radar, and there are some actionable steps towards addressing this, which the article talks about a little bit. So I just wanted to mention that and put on the radar, again.

Nicki: Okay.

Robb: The other piece, really quickly, is “obesity in late adolescence and incident type one diabetes in young adulthood.” This is a study that effectively looked at body mass index, which is not a perfect measure, but it also appears to be highly predictive of the autoimmune complication of type one diabetes. And it’s interesting, within the type one diabetic community, people of historically, and I think in many regards rightfully, gotten rather prickly when people say, “Well, how did your kid get diabetes?” He or she was eating poorly. And that’s not really always remotely the issue.

Robb: This autoimmune situation can be precipitated from vaccines, from viral infections, from acts of God. And also there are some linkages with dietary factors, particularly gluten and dairy are biggies in this. But what was interesting is that just simply having a higher body mass index started correlating really, really strongly with the subsequent development of type one diabetes. And there’s a lot of different mechanistic potentials here. There could absolutely be alterations in the gut microbiome, in intestinal permeability, in systemic inflammation. And this is another one of the reasons why the folks that are in this healthy at any size camp, I really think that the vast majority of people start here with some good intentions, but I’m continually flabbergasted at how this messaging is failing people. And it’s not helping them. And I think the flip side of this is that nobody needs to be harassed and harangued for health issues. And if you’re overweight or whatever, none of that’s appropriate. None of that’s okay. But just lying to people that, “Hey, man,” you know…

Nicki: There’s just going to be a lot of suffering, unnecessary suffering, if the messaging is…

Robb: Your house is on fire, but you’re okay here.

Nicki: You’re okay. Yeah.

Robb: Yeah, yeah. And so I think that this is important stuff that we just have to push back on. And I’ve been, frankly, kind of reticent to push back on it that hard because it’s super easy to get oneself canceled and called a bigot and all kinds of other things. But it is reaching a point where I’m watching folks in my community, people who got their start basically with me, who are really advocating for this, diet culture is evil and horrible and just eat whatever you want. And you’re beautiful, and maybe you are beautiful, but you also may be unhealthy.

Robb: And if that’s what you want to do, that’s fine. But if you arrive there because you ostensibly went to a “health expert” and that health expert gave you garbage advice, then somebody else like me needs to do something different so that there’s at least the option that folks know that well, little Jimmy and little Jane, if they’re super overweight in childhood, it doesn’t bode well for them the rest of their lives. And maybe we could get out in front of this. Maybe we could do something that improves their health now and their health later and their quality of life. And if you want to get all call me on it, then it’s going to be a lesser drag on our collective social infrastructure and whatnot. This is one of these things that good health really should be an easy bipartisan thing. If you’re a real pull yourself up by your bootstraps, rugged individual, then you want to be as healthy as you can so that you’re not a drag on your family, your community and all the rest of that. And then if you’re a good little goose stepping socialist, then you should want to be as healthy as you possibly can so that you negatively impact the health infrastructure of the world as minimally as possible. So there you got that. That’s probably the whole episode. We’ll just wrap that up there and call it good.

Nicki: Okay. There we go. And we’ll link to both of those in the show notes. And, as always, The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company LMNT. It’s officially summer, officially by the calendar, not necessarily by the-

Robb: Is it really?

Nicki: …glowing orb in the sky that is not here in Northwest Montana.

Robb: I thought it was still later June.

Nicki: Oh, June 21st?

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Well, I usually think of June as summer.

Robb: Yeah, that’s fair enough.

Nicki: But you’re right. You’re right. Solstice, I think, is the official, official thing.

Robb: Look at me, splitting hairs.

Nicki: Look at you. Yes. Anyway, summer usually means warmer weather, more time outside, and in an increased need for electrolytes. So stay hydrated during all your favorite summer activities with LMNT. All the electrolytes you need and none of the sugar or the other crap that you don’t. And remember grapefruit salt is back for a limited time. You can grab yours as well as any other delicious LMNT flavors at drinklmnt.com/robb. That’s drinklmnt.com/robb. And it is pronounced element, not elementy. Just a PSA.

Robb: There you have it. That’s how we tell the in versus the out crowd. Always.

Nicki: Yeah. People are like, “Oh, I tried some of that elementy and it’s so good.”

Robb: And then we usually reply, “Yes, element is quite outstanding.”

Nicki: All right, we’ve got three questions today. The first one is from Ryan on two meals a day. Ryan says, “I’m a huge fan of sacred cow, and I like eating two meals a day, but after listening to the book I’m trying to increase my protein to 180 to 200 grams a day. I’m six foot one and 210 pounds. Is it beneficial to eat 90 grams in each meal, or is that too much for my body to process correctly for optimal absorption? Should I spread it out?”

Robb: So the issue isn’t absorption. You’ll absorb that just fine. The whole notion of you can’t absorb or benefit from more than 30 grams of protein in a meal is completely bunk, and it’s been… Lane Norton, Gabrielle Lion, some of the folks that are good protein experts have done great breakdowns on that. But the opportunity that’s being missed here is that the more frequently that we get above about 25 to 30 grams of protein, in a meal, whole protein, I’m assuming animal-

Nicki: Not shakes.

Robb: …protein. Not that, well-

Nicki: Must have a face and a soul.

Robb: Face and soul, kill it, bring it into your person. God, that was good. Good material.

Nicki: A good line that people will remember if they ever attended one of Robb’s CrossFit nutrition seminars.

Robb: Yeah. Yeah. But, no, a shake can work. Whey protein can work, but what we need is enough branch chain amino acids, specifically lysine, or not lysine, but the anabolic signaling branch chain amino acids, so that we are offsetting catabolism, basically. So two meals and a snack, something crazy like three meals, the basic thing is if you are really rocking the two meals a day thing, it’s totally fine, but…

Nicki: So better for anabolic signaling if you’re having multiple…

Robb: A third meal. Yeah.

Nicki: Yeah, a third meal above 30 grams.

Robb: And this is where it gets a little interesting. If you really wanted to… If your goal was maximal muscle gain, maybe that four to six small meals, each meal having 25, 30 gram, just enough protein to hit the anabolic signaling, but then you get that multiple times per day, then you could make the case at that that’s probably a good thing. I suspect that there’s probably some sort of a U curve on that and it may start flattening out at some point, but this is where, to build muscle and also to maintain muscle, although maintaining muscle is easier than building it, but some frequency of anabolic signaling from physical activity, that is specifically resistance training, and then also just dietary intake of protein that is sufficient to stimulate that anabolic response. So I would make the case, Ryan, that a third meal, two meals and a snack, something like that, if that works-

Nicki: The snack being 30 grams of protein.

Robb: Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe you could shave maybe 40 grams of protein, something like that, so you could shave a little bit out of both meals and then just have your small meal, small snack, primarily protein at some other point. Just to goose that anabolic signaling-

Nicki: Canned tuna.

Robb: Yeah. Canned tuna, there you go. Yep.

Nicki: All right.

Robb: I could think of-

Nicki: Other things that might be tastier and easier.

Robb: …a lot of other things more enjoyable than a can of tuna.

Nicki: It comes in handy sometimes.

Robb: It does.

Nicki: All right, our next question is from Charles on blood flow issues. “Hi, Robb and Nicki. Long time listener here. I have been following Robb since I was 18, almost 10 years ago. Thank you for your work. Background: six feet tall, male, 142 pounds, 28 years old. Lenient paleo diet for almost 10 years, supplemented with a half to one packet of LMNT daily, depending on weather and exercise load. Generally great sleep hygiene. Devote a lot of effort to getting in the sun every day. Weights twice a week, 45 minute bike ride at least twice a week. Recent blood work came back excellent. Just the standard LDL, HDL, hem A1C, vitamin D, thyroid stimulating hormone, hepatic enzymes. I do seem to have issues with circulation, though, which I think may be related to the problem I describe below. My extremities go numb easily, and when it’s cold, I have a few fingertips that lose color and sensitivity for extended periods of time after the others have returned to normal temperature.” So that sounds like Raynaud’s right there.

Nicki: Okay. But here’s the problem. “My problem: my erections have decreased in strength noticeably in the past two years. The problem usually isn’t so severe that it prevents sex, although a few times it has, but it certainly decreases its quality for both parties involved on a regular basis. Potentially relevant circumstances surrounding the problem: a little over two years ago, when the problem began, I ended a bad relationship, started a new amazing one, moved twice, had a very bad car accident, had a very bad cycling accident, lost my grandmother, helped my mother through a traumatic incident, etc. I’d like to point out that this was winter through summer of 2020. Need I say more? It was a whirlwind of a year. I dealt with it in healthy ways, amping up the exercise and protein consumption, and unhealthy ways, picking up one to two drinks before dinner habit that I’ve since decreased just on the weekends. This decrease happened six months ago. Should I talk to a therapist instead of sending this into a podcast? Probably, but why not both? I’m hoping you guys might be able to connect some dots that I haven’t.”

Robb: As Luis says, ¿Por qué no los dos?

Nicki: ¿Por qué no los dos?

Robb: Man, just getting very mechanistic about this, there’s… The Raynaud’s thing is definitely interesting, the cold hands and feet, really significant response to temperature changes, it’s a pretty big deal. We’ve seen significant improvements in people, lower carb, gluten free. Raynaud’s is-

Nicki: It could have autoimmune component to it, right?

Robb: Yeah, it seems to have an autoimmune piece to it. So some sort of carnivore-esque autoimmune paleo seems like a good thing. Mechanistically, on the erection side, the testosterone levels and then nitric oxide production are biggies. And this is where eating some beets, having some sort of beet juice powder, it legitimately seems to improve nitric oxide release. This is part of what is facilitated with things like Viagra and Tadalafil and things like that, which can also address those issues.

Robb: I would definitely get just baseline total testosterone, free testosterone, estrogen, estradiol, sex hormone, binding globulin, get a really good functional look at testosterone levels to just see how things are working there. Because, interestingly, the testosterone status also influences the nitric oxide production, which is part of the vasodilation process of having an erection. And flip side for women, there’s a vasodilated process that is important on their side of the sexual function story in this whole thing. Which many people don’t realize that women also will benefit sexually from small amounts of Viagra and whatnot, because of the improved blood flow and mucus production and all that fun stuff, improved sensitivity, but anyway. Side note.

Nicki: So everybody needs to go to the farmer’s market and get beets.

Robb: Get some beets, make some borscht, and get after it. But at a baseline, again, I think I would look into maybe addressing the basic autoimmune stuff with some sort of an elimination diet to get a baseline. Sounds like he was pretty good, but you just never know when people…

Nicki: Well, in those couple of, or the drink, I’m wondering is that beer? Is it wine? If it is beer, again, that gluten piece can be huge for the autoimmune-

Robb: Can be a biggie. And the alcohol near bedtime can absolutely crush testosterone levels, just crater them. So another piece to look at with this. But I think looking at some sort of addressing that autoimmune potentiality. I’m thinking, well, that gets out in the weeds. But address that autoimmune potentiality. Get some basic blood work to establish what testosterone levels are. As part of the diet, make sure you’re getting some beets couple of times a week, maybe even a little dose of that daily, and the beets juice powder that are in some of these pre-workouts. You don’t need the caffeine and all the other squirreliness in there, but it enhances nitric oxide production. The stuff is legit, so that could definitely be helpful.

Robb: And then if none of that really addresses things to the degree that you might want, then something like Tadalafil or Viagra or something like that could be potentially helpful. But given he’s not that old-

Nicki: He’s 28.

Robb: …he’s 28. Yeah, we should be able to get out in front of this in a really significant way by just making sure that testosterone levels are on point. Improve the intake of some of the nitric oxide releasing precursors like in beets and all that stuff.

Nicki: Cool. All right. Our third and final question this week is from Christy on functional dyspepsia. Christy says, “I love your show and the dynamics between the two of you. I’d love to join the rebellion when I can afford it. What do we know in natural health about functional dyspepsia? I just had an upper endoscopy to diagnose the cause of a burning sensation in my stomach just under my right ribcage, usually right after eating or while eating, that seems to respond to an amount of food rather than any particular food. Before this, the gastro had me do a stool test that was negative for H pilori. They took biopsies during the upper endo, but the doctor says he doesn’t expect to find anything. He said he saw irritation in the stomach lining, and it was probably caused by functional dyspepsia, which was an imbalance of acid in the stomach. He said the causes of this could be different things, including stress, which I admittedly have a lot of, but I do what I can to control it, and that otherwise causes were unknown, but that I could just take Pepcid. How long? Oh, maybe forever. Needless to say, I’m not doing that.

Nicki: “So if all I know is that the acid is imbalanced, how do I balance it? At the risk of making this too much longer, my diet exercise and supplement regimen are all along the lines of what paleo-centric gurus recommend, so none of the other causes of this dysfunction like NSAID use, fried or unhealthy fatty foods, or alcohol excess makes sense. I’m not celiac, but I don’t eat gluten and dairy because they just don’t feel great. I’m thinking of continuing to take probiotics and add a functional medicine supplement with aloe, licorice root, marshmallow root, NAD, etc., to maybe calm the irritation.

Nicki: “My only other thought is that maybe I’ve been taking too much of a natural allergy supplement, that is Quercetin 400 milligrams per two pills, three pills twice a day, but I doubt that’s it. And after stopping it for five days before this procedure, as they required, I really noticed my allergies kicking in. The problem is I’m five foot five, 118 to 120 pounds, and closer to one 18 with what I’m able to eat without feeling discomfort. I have to stop before I’m satisfied completely. I wake up at night hungry and I can’t go back to sleep. And I know 118 pounds is too light for me. I weight train three times per week and I’m active all the other days. I’m a high school teacher, so I’m not really sedentary either. Pretty low carb with starchy carbs, about a cup of sweet potato or rice, only included at dinner. Thank you.”

Robb: Man. There’s so many different angles that could be tackled on this. There could just be a structural issue, although when Christy related this, she said that they saw irritation in the stomach. Usually when you hear something like this, it’s a valve not closing, and so we’re getting some reflux up into the esophagus. And it sounds like that’s not really what the case was here. That it’s actually some issues in the gut. Then I start thinking about mucus production in the stomach, which normally protects the gut. And if we don’t have enough of that, or the right consistency, or you could have a dysbiotic situation with the wrong type of bacteria growing in that, then it allows the stomach acid to come in contact with the tissue and then it can damage it.

Robb: I kind of feel like there just needs to be a little bit more of a deeper functional medicine dive on this. There’s not that many Chris Cressers out there, but there are some very, very good folks. But I would poke around and try to find, maybe like Dr. Rusho, someone like that that is really a gut expert. And just go a little bit deeper on this because there’s, there’s something else amiss here. And Christy’s ticking most of the boxes, she’s doing the standard diligence, and not really getting the response that we would expect out of this. So there’s probably something else going on here. Could be a deal where she just needs to eat frequent, small meals throughout the day. It sounds like there’s some sort of a size threshold, worsens the situation. Yeah.

Nicki: The fact that she wakes up at night hungry, you used to always say in the seminars, if that’s the case, look to your previous meal and you probably didn’t have enough fat. Would you…?

Robb: Could be the fat and protein, but she’s just having a problem eating enough.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: So there’s just so many different ways you could go after this. It sounds like she eats really well, but could we do a really hard elimination diet? Even going carnivore? Yeah, that could be a reset, and see how you do. There may still be some type of irritant that is consistently in there. Maybe it’s starch itself. It doesn’t sound like she has that much, but…

Nicki: Yeah, but the sweet potato or rice at dinner doesn’t sound like it’s a lot, but…

Robb: It could be it. This is again where having a little bit of outside eyeballs on this and then moving forward. It would just be interesting to think about any other dysbiotic potentialities using… And it’s always a little spooky because you do something, she’s already lighter than what she would like to be. So recommending something really low carb or carnivore or something like that is a little bit hairball because people tend to lose weight on those protocols. But those are some of the things that one could do to just try to get back to a baseline. We’ve had people in the rebellion that did the seven day carb test, did really poorly with carbs, did a carnivore reset for six months, started reintroducing carbs, they had lost weight, they started strength training, and then their carb tolerance dramatically improved and GI problems were better.

Robb: Which I don’t know that’s going to happen with everybody. Some people, there’s this concern about removing carbohydrates and starch and fermentable fiber that’s going to alter the gut microbiome in a way that we end up in this cul-de-sac where we’re trapped in low carb and keto. I think maybe that does happen, but I’ve also seen the flip side of that where people actually are able to eat broader things later because they just generally got more metabolically healthy. So I guess the thoughts there are, maybe try a pretty strict reset diet.

Nicki: Elimination diet.

Robb: Elimination diet. Maybe that means carnivore. I don’t know, again, it’s dependent on what she’s game for. And it would be great if she had somebody helping to steward her specifically through this stuff. And then the other thing is a deep dive on any other potential gut microbiota issues that could be driving this. And again, I’m assuming that this isn’t some sort of a structural issue that the problem is her esophagus getting irritated from the sphincters basically not working properly. And then sometimes the main remedy in that situation is small meals, sleeping with a slant pillow to keep you upright a little bit so that you’re not allowing the acid to go up into your esophagus and whatnot, but-

Nicki: It doesn’t sound like it’s an esophageal issue. It’s more of a stomach situation.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: All right, christy, hopefully something in there can help point you in the right direction. Let’s see here. That’s our final question this week. Cool. Any other parting thoughts, hubs?

Robb: Praying for sun.

Nicki: Praying for sun.

Robb: Yep.

Nicki: Yep. Hope you all have sun wherever you are, because it is June.

Robb: They do have sun. They just may have clouds between them and the sun.

Nicki: Right. Well, thank you guys for joining us. As always be sure to check out our sponsor LMNT at drinklmnt.com/rob. And we’ll see you next time. You can always submit your questions at robwolf.com and be sure to join us in health rebellion for all of our upcoming summer fun at join.thehealthyrebellion.com and we’ll see you next time.

Robb: Bye, everybody.

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News topic du jour:

https://www.medestheticsmag.com/news/news/21219423/vegan-diets-negatively-impact-surgical-wound-healing

Podcast Questions:

1. Is Sweating More Better or Not? [8:41]

BJ says:

Robb/Nicki,

Long time listener and sharer of all things Robb Wolf.  Your books and podcasts are the easiest to read and listen to.  I appreciate that, being a guy whose biggest hobby is learning/understanding health, but who barely survived Biology 101.  Also, thank you for being open to new ideas and evolving over your career.  It’s reassuring to know that you and Nicki are willing to change your stance on an issue regarding a particular food, diet, politics, whatever.  When I read Wired To Eat and was introduced to the term “hyper palatable”, a lot of pieces of the puzzle fell into place for me.

I’m a 47 year old male, 5’8″, 165lbs.  I’ve eaten all the diets over the years…that include meat.  Never considered vegetarian or vegan.  Been as heavy as 210+.  Pretty good health markers today.  Admittedly, I still pray that one day you’ll promote an all pizza and french fry way of eating.

Okay, so I’ve always liked getting in the sauna (not steam room) at the gym.  I believe it provides similar benefits to cold therapy, but cold therapy is…so cold!!

I’ve envied other who guys who would walk in and start sweating immediately (like within a few minutes).  It has always taken me about 10-15 minutes to bead up and start sweating.  I figured it had a little to do with how often they get in, versus me doing it a couple times per week at most.

I recently had a sauna built in my home.  I’ve been getting in it regularly for just a month, and have noticed a significant increase in how quickly I begin to sweat.  Yes, I think I’ve got my room a bit hotter than at the gym, but not much.  I’m really enjoying it and it feels great but it’s got me thinking.  Is sweating “easier” really a positive effect?  Or, am I just convincing myself of this like how people try to believe that eating 6 meals a day is how we’re supposed to eat to rev up our metabolism?  That idea (so many daily meals) has never made sense to me…why not leave my car running overnight or while I’m at work so it’s good and warmed up when I’m ready to drive again…just doesn’t make sense.

It’s not causing me to sweat all day in normal circumstances.  I don’t feel warmer or uncomfortable through the day.  In the mornings, I don’t want to take a super hot shower like I always have, but that doesn’t seem like a big deal.

So, to sweat more or not to sweat more?  Whatcha think? Hoping I didn’t leave too much for you to…unpack…before being able to share your thoughts.  Ha!  Best wishes to you and your family.

Sincerely,

BJ David

2. Celiac or not: is it worth testing to know for sure? [14:03]

Becky says:

I’ve been 100% gluten-free for the last year – ever since my DNA consult with Dr. Anthony Jay where I believe his exact words were “avoid gluten like the plague”. Prior to that, I was occasionally having gluten when out (never at home) but have been eating a paleo-style diet for the last 5+ years. I’ve done a little research on the test for celiac which requires you to eat gluten in order to measure the antibodies in the blood. It sounds terrible to make myself sick eating gluten (even as much as I miss some good French bread) in order to confirm or deny whether or not I have celiac disease. However, I am wondering if it is worth it to be tested to confirm if I have it. Besides avoiding gluten, is there anything else I should be aware of or alter in my lifestyle if I confirmed that I have celiac disease? Thank you!

3. Sugar Effects Occurring Generations Later Theory [22:39]

John says:

Robb,

I thought of something yesterday.  If I’m reading the theory correctly, the obesity effects of sugar could take a couple of generations to manifest (i.e. each subsequent generation is affected worse as seen in increasing obesity rates).

If that’s so, why did the nutritional transition (~10,000 years ago) manifest instantly in height, bones, teeth, disease, etc and then the human race slowly adapted (hemochromatosis, lactose tolerance, amylase increase, etc)?

It seems that the sugar generational effects theory is going in reverse of the human adaptation seen in the great nutritional transition.

Cheers!

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Transcript:

Download Transcript Here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick-care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.

Robb: Welcome back, friends, neighbors.

Nicki: You already clicked record.

Robb: Loved ones.

Nicki: I love how you start these shows. He pulls up this Facebook image of Sagan seven years ago, so she’s a year old and she’s standing on the lawn on our home in Reno, and looking cute as ever, and starts telling me how now she’s walking through the kitchen, and our kids are tall for their age relative to their peers. Anyway, and then he just clicks record and he’s like okay, welcome back. I didn’t even know we started this show. Thanks for that, hubs. Thanks for giving the warmup or the notification so I could be ready.

Robb: Not much foreplay today, sorry. You always have to be ready.

Nicki: Hi, everybody. This is episode 111 of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Let’s see, we have a little sun in the Montana sky. This has been sort of an abnormally wet spring, so we hear. This is only our second spring here, but we were at an event, the owners of SPG here renewed their wedding vows on Saturday night, so we got to catch up with a bunch of people. One guy we were talking to was like no, no, no. This is not normal, because we were like shit, maybe last year was the anomaly and this is how it’s always going to be, because it’s been rainy and gray, and rainy and gray.

Robb: And cold comparatively.

Nicki: Yep, we just yesterday did a bunch of weeding, because it’s been so wet.

Robb: Funny enough, despite the wet and cold, the weeds still grow remarkably well.

Nicki: Yes, yes. Anyway, we haven’t yet put our seedlings in the ground, but that is a project for some of today and tomorrow I think. I think we are past the freezes and we can actually plant some stuff now. What else? What else? Our little man, Griz, Grizzly Bear, is 11 weeks old now, and he’s a little terror. We never had Dutch during this stage, and so the always into everything, kind of maniac phase of puppyhood is new for us.

Robb: Not too bad.

Nicki: He’s not too bad, no, and he’s sleeping through the night.

Robb: But you and Zoe are actually doing a fantastic job training him.

Nicki: Yep. He sleeps nine to 9 1/2 hours a night, so that’s the main thing that I’m like thank the Heavens, because you want to see a grumpy mom in the house, short sleep me for multiple weeks on end.

Robb: We won’t say any names, but we discovered we have some friends that they also have a new puppy, and within their relationship there’s some strife in which one of the individuals thinks that crating the dog is-

Nicki: Yeah, it’s a hill that the one individual doesn’t want to die on, because they broached that and I don’t know what happened. I don’t know if they attempted crating, or firmly is not open to the conversation at all. I don’t know how you would survive if you didn’t. It’s the only way that you can have peace when you have this little dog.

Robb: You would have no peace and you would have a house that is encrusted in urine and feces.

Nicki: Yeah, yeah, and I don’t know how you sleep through the night. Anyway, anybody out there with a new puppy, we highly recommend utilizing the God-given tool that is the crate.

Robb: And on the 8th day God created dog crates.

Nicki: Something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Robb: Okay.

Nicki: All right, enough of that stuff. Let’s see, upcoming within the Healthy Rebellion community, we have our book club that just kicked off yesterday. We’re recording this on Tuesday, May 31st. we’re reading The Book of Joy by the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu, so that is ongoing here. If you’re not a member, jump in, join.

Nicki: You can always catch up, read faster than the prescribed chapters if you want, so that’s something that you can always jump in and join. We also have a 7-day breath work challenge starting next Monday on June 6th, with a kickoff call Sunday, June 5th. That will be fun, and then two other things coming up, a survival class on food preservation, June 22nd, and then the month of July is our rucking challenge. I know a lot of people in the rebellion are really excited for that. More details on that coming soon. I’m excited for that one too.

Robb: Are you going to ruck?

Nicki: I’m going to ruck.

Robb: Okay.

Nicki: Yep. Are you going to ruck?

Robb: I always ruck.

Nicki: Okay, let’s see. What do you have for us for a news topic, hubs?

Robb: Something that’s not going to be surprising to anybody here, but it’s one of those ha-ha things that you can pull.

Nicki: Team America.

Robb: If you want to go Team America on people, the title is Vegan Diets Negatively Impact Surgical Wound Healing, and it’s kind of interesting. It’s a study that was published in Dermatological Surgery in December, 2020, enrolled 21 omnivores, 21 vegan patients who underwent surgical excision of non-melanoma skin cancer. Then they were assessed as to the wound healing and complications, and the vegans had significantly worse wound resolution, far more significant complications, worse scarring. This kind of jibes with what we saw, what was the vegan film? Game Changers, where there’s all these athletes that supposedly, they went vegan and then all of their careers ended. Almost to a person they end up ending with soft tissue injuries.

Robb: They get some sort of a catastrophic basically wound failure, and when you think about what we’re seeing on the outside in this case, with wound healing and what was probably going on internally, it seems pretty consistent. Folks were assessed for iron status, B12 levels, and it wasn’t good for the vegan folks. It doesn’t necessarily mean everybody needs to go carnivore, but I will say this, and I’ve said this for ages, I think you can get away with eating plants of various types, so long as you eat enough meats of various types to keep you from getting nutrient deficient from the plants. There you have it, and we’ll add a link to that in the show notes so that you can bludgeon your co-workers or whoever you want to with that.

Nicki: Okay, let’s see. The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our salty A-F electrolyte company, LMNT, and as many of you probably now know, Grapefruit Salt is officially back and available just for a limited time. Once it’s gone, it’s gone, so if you have Grapefruit Salt lovers in your life, you might consider buying an extra box for an upcoming birthday gift, Father’s Day gift or other holiday, or just because, or if you yourself love it, you want to stock up.

Robb: We will be stockpiling.

Nicki: We will be stockpiling as well, yes. You can grab your Grapefruit Salt as well as any other Element flavors at drinklmnt.com/robb, that’s drink, L-M-N-T.com/R-O-B-B. Okay, we’ve got three questions for you all today. The first one is from B.J. He was curious about sweating more. Is it better to sweat more in a sauna or not? Robb and Nicki, longtime listener and sharer of all things Robb Wolf. Your books and podcasts are the easiest to read and listen to, and I appreciate that being a guy whose biggest hobby is learning and understanding health, but who barely survived Biology 101.

Nicki: Also thank you for being open to new ideas and evolving over your career. It’s reassuring to know that you and Nicki are willing to change your stance on an issue regarding a particular food, diet, politics, whatever. When I read Wired to Eat, and was introduced to the term hyperpalatable, a lot of pieces of the puzzle fell into place for me. I’m a 47-year old male, five foot eight, 165 pounds. I’ve eaten all the diets over the years that include meat, never considered vegetarian or vegan. I’ve been as heavy as 210, but have pretty good health markers today. Admittedly, I still pray that one day you’ll promote an all pizza and French fry way of eating.

Robb: It’s coming.

Nicki: Okay, so I’ve always liked getting in the sauna, not the steam room at the gym. I believe it provides similar benefits to cold therapy, but cold therapy is so cold. I have envied others who would walk in, start sweating immediately, like within a few minutes. It has always taken me about 10 to 15 minutes to bead up and start sweating. I figured it had a little to do with how often they get in versus me doing it a couple of times per week at most. I recently had a sauna built in my home. I’ve been getting in it regularly for just a month and I’ve noticed a significant increase in how quickly I begin to sweat. Yes, I think I’ve got my room a bit hotter than at the gym, but not much. I’m really enjoying it and it feels great, but it’s got me thinking.

Nicki: Is sweating easier really a positive effect or am I just convincing myself of this like how people try to believe that eating six meals a day is how we’re supposed to eat to rev up our metabolism. That idea, so many daily meals, has never made sense to me. Why not leave my car running overnight or while I’m at work so it’s good and warmed up when I’m ready to drive again? Just doesn’t make sense. It’s not causing me to sweat all day in normal circumstances. I don’t feel warmer or uncomfortable through the day. In the mornings I don’t want to take a super hot shower like I always have, but that doesn’t seem like a big deal, so to sweat more or not to sweat more? What do you think? Hoping I didn’t leave too much for you to unpack before being able to share your thoughts. Best wishes to you and your family, B.J.

Robb: One, I’m continually intrigued by the topics that people do decide to send in to us. It’s just kind of fascinating, you know? I appreciate B.J. sending this in. It would have never really occurred to me to ask a question along this line. A couple of different ways to look at this. One is that what are the benefits of being in a sauna, specifically a dry sauna? There’s the heat shock protein element, which seems to be ramped up with heat exposure, similar to the cold shock protein enhancement with cold exposure. Then above and beyond that I would say you’ve got the mental benefits and psychological boost and all that type of stuff, but the really, I think primary benefit of sauna is cardiovascular benefits.

Robb: That relates to getting your heart rate up to 120, 130 beats per minute and you want to stay in there for 20 minutes ideally at least to be able to get that full cardiorespiratory benefit out of that. Depending on how hot one gets and how quickly you kind of hit heat fatigue, you’re going to tap out on that. Because it is a dry sauna, you will start to cool off a little bit with sweating, and that will actually keep you in the fight longer, and your heart rate will tend to go up as you sweat because your fluid volume is decreasing and you kind of get this hypovolemic kind of deal. I don’t know if I’m really answering this question. It is well understood that as people habituate to either heat exposure or exercise, they will tend to sweat quicker, and I think that that’s going to be of benefit for folks because it helps them to thermoregulate better.

Nicki: So there’s nothing wrong with him sweating more.

Robb: There’s nothing wrong with it. Yeah.

Nicki: It’s just kind of a normal adaptation to consistent heat exposure.

Robb: Normal adaptation to heat exposure. Yeah. Yeah, and I don’t know if I really answered that question appropriately, but there you go.

Nicki: I will say that the sauna in the women’s locker room at the gym that we go to is consistently 220 degrees. It’s hot and I love it that way, but occasionally somebody will come in and turn it down to the 185 or whatever it’s supposed to be at for the OSHA prescription.

Robb: General pop?

Nicki: I like it hotter. I feel like I sweat faster with the higher temperature, and that’s why I like it hotter. I don’t know. That’s just my personal experience.

Robb: When it’s 200 or above you definitely notice it. It’s not a subtle effect. Yeah.

Nicki: Yeah. I love it. Okay, our next question is from Becky, celiac or not? Is it worth testing to know for sure? I’ve been 100% gluten free for the last year, ever since my DNA consult with Dr. Anthony Jay, where I believe his exact words were quote, “Avoid gluten like the plague,” unquote. Prior to that, I was occasionally having gluten when out, never at home, but have been eating a paleo style diet for the last five plus years.

Nicki: I’ve done a little research on the test for celiac, which requires you to eat gluten in order to measure the antibodies in the blood. It sounds terrible to make myself sick eating gluten, even as much as I miss some good French bread, in order to confirm or deny whether or not I have celiac disease. However, I’m wondering if it is worth it to be tested to confirm that I have it. Besides avoiding gluten, is there anything else I should be aware of or alter in my lifestyle if it’s confirmed that I have celiac disease?

Robb: Let’s tackle that last part first. Is there anything else you need to be aware of? The Cyrex Labs folks for over a decade have been talking about the cross-reactivity that can exist between things like coffee and chocolate, I think are the biggies, dairy. But some people with celiac disease have significant cross-reactivity with basically other proteins that can produce similar or even the same kind of celiac type response and keep kind of active autoimmune disease present. There is that.

Robb: Becky, I don’t know if it’s worth it for you to test or not. I never officially had a positive celiac test, because my mother was diagnosed with it. When I removed gluten, I felt far, far better. When I would get an accidental exposure, I felt far far worse. That was pretty good for me. I guess if it finally fosters some 100% compliance, then maybe that would be worth it. I didn’t need that. There is something interesting to consider in this age. There was just the Pfizer CEO that was talking about biotracking pharmaceuticals, like basically in each one of your pills there would be a little chip that will basically wirelessly communicate with your health tracker to let your insurance company know that you did in fact take the pharmaceutical.

Nicki: Oh, shit. I haven’t heard of this.

Robb: Maybe that’s what I should have put in the news piece. I don’t want to steer this too far off track, but this is reminiscent of when Amazon and Berkshire Hathaway, they actually reached out to Chris Kresser and a bunch of other people because they were looking at how to revamp their whole approach to healthcare. Chris talked to me about the risk assessment program. We were both really excited and then as this thing motored forward, what the whole thing settled on, the innovation that the smartest, wealthiest people in the world had, was that they were going to make really, really sure that people were compliant with taking their medications. That’s what they had to offer. No fucking lifestyle change or big intervention or anything.

Nicki: Well, because if you make sure they take their pills then they have to get another prescription to refill.

Robb: Yeah, but the thing is when you really look critically at the data around that. Blood pressure meds, maybe they help people but not that much. It doesn’t really reduce morbidity, mortality, management of diabetes. It kind of helps versus just letting it just rip, but Metformin, as an example, most of the studies that I’ve looked at, it doesn’t really improve morbidity, mortality. It kind of seems to kick the can down the road because you get some better blood sugar regulation, but the thing is in the case of Metformin you’re still overeating. You’re either overeating calories or carbs or both, and you’re still Type 2 diabetic because of over-consumption of food basically.

Robb: Metformin, although it improves insulin sensitivity or kind of an indirect insulin sensitivity and allows you to better control blood glucose levels, it’s still not really fixing the root cause problem. When you look at who’s going to benefit from ensuring that we are compliant around pharmaceuticals, well, the people selling drugs. Really, it’s tough to really get behind t benefits above and beyond that. It sounds absolutely insane, but the data is pretty clear, and there are certain circumstance, like if you’re hyperthyroid and you go on thyroid meds, then life can be dramatically improved.

Robb: There’s certainly situations where that’s appropriate, but the bulk of the stuff is metabolic disease driven, and the powers that be kind of want to be able to monitor that. Do you want, Becky, on your medical records, that are going to become more and more transparent apparently with time, because HIPAA no longer exists in the United States because you can ask somebody their COVID status just out and about. It’s like you order a burger and your COVID status apparently can be checked. The whole notion of HIPAA-

Nicki: The secretary at the dentist, or the receptionist at the dentist can just ask you when you’re at the counter and the whole waiting room can hear.

Robb: Yeah, yeah, so our medical privacy is kind of in a shambles, and do you really want to have a celiac diagnosis as part of that, because what is that going to do to influence your insurance rates later because there’s very high linkage with neurodegenerative disease and gastrointestinal problems, increased rates of gastrointestinal cancers, increased rates of other types of cancers among those with celiac.

Nicki: Becky, you’re already eyes wide open to eating paleo, and for the last year you’re 100% gluten free, so if that’s working for you and you feel good, I feel like just run with that. I feel like the celiac testing is helpful for somebody who’s coming from a sad diet and maybe isn’t even aware that food can affect-

Robb: They don’t even know what celiac is.

Nicki: They don’t even know that celiac is, and so then they get that test result and they’re like oh, okay, this is proof that I need to do this thing, but you’re already doing it. You feel better. It seems like just run with that.

Robb: That’s kind of what I was sneaking up to, but again, I guess if this is going to be the final thing. I’m still getting the sense though that Becky is probably not actually-

Nicki: No, she’s been 100% for the last year, but prior to that she was-

Robb: But when I hear the “even as much as I miss good…” I don’t know, maybe.

Nicki: You’re getting Spidey senses?

Robb: I’m getting Spidey senses.

Nicki: Okay, okay.

Robb: Here’s the deal, and there’s gradations on this, but as you know because of dining out with me, I don’t ever order something with gluten, but if I don’t go through a little bit of rigamarole to make sure a burger isn’t cooked on a grill where they grill buns, then I get cross-reactivity all the time.

Nicki: Right, right.

Robb: Not everybody is the same degree of sensitive in that regard, but if you suspect celiac, then you really need to take it seriously. Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: Yeah, like finding out what’s in sauces, no soy sauce. Like Rob said, when we go to get a hamburger, he will ask them to cook his hamburger patty in a skillet.

Robb: Well, I’ll ask them if they do any other gluten containing items on the main grill.

Nicki: On the grill, and if they do, then he’ll ask them to cook his hamburger patty in a skillet so that it’s not on the grill with the buns.

Robb: Right, and some places do, some places don’t. The ones that do, I can go back and patronize them again. The ones that don’t, if we go back as a family I just watch everybody else eat.

Nicki: Okay, our third question this week is from John on sugar effects occurring generations later. Robb, I thought of something yesterday, and if I’m reading the theory correctly, the obesity effects of sugar could take a couple of generations to manifest, i.e. each subsequent generation is affected worse as seen in increasing obesity rates. If that’s so, why did the nutritional transition about 10,000 years ago manifest instantly in height, bones, teeth, disease, et cetera, and then the human race slowly adapted, hemachromatosis, lactose tolerance, amylase increase, et cetera? It seems that the sugar generational effects theory is going in reverse of the human adaption seen in the great nutritional transition.

Robb: I’ve read this one a couple of times, and John, it’s an interesting question but I’m not sure that I see exactly where this is. I mean, we could make the case that we are less than 100 years into the potential adaptation to say the ultra process. I mean, we’re certainly on the ultra process side. We’re far less than 100 years. We’re maybe 30 to 40 years, so two generations, three generations if you’re from trailer park environs like I am. We’re still super early in that whole story, and this is just kind of a side not, but kids are getting sick enough early enough that they may not be able to reproduce, or maybe not all of them. It’s bad enough that there may be a significant selection pressure here that could leave us in some spot.

Robb: Shawn Baker just posted something that in the UK they’re wanting to start feeding their government sponsored school lunches. They’re going to really double down on getting more crickets and mealworms and stuff like that in to enhance the diet and to reduce their carbon footprint because animals are bad. What was my thought around that? Just that in theory somebody somewhere is going to be able to adapt to these uber shitty diets, like if we just feed them, and adapt is kind of a relative term there. I guess in purely Darwinian evolutionary terms, the kids just need to be healthy enough to make it to reproductive age or the individuals need to be healthy enough to make it to reproductive age, actually reproduce, and have that whole thing keep going forward.

Robb: Like I said, there are folks out there, like reproductive problems are getting greater and greater. Both male and female infertility is getting greater and greater, kids either entering early or not being able to enter puberty at all. For boys, they’re experiencing puberty blockers basically because of their obesity being high enough that the testosterone as it starts ramping up gets converted into estrogen from the elevated levels of aromatase in their adipose tissue. They’re basically puberty blocked, you know, because estrogen goes up and the brain senses the estrogen and then down regulates testosterone production. These secondary sexual characteristics that come about from puberty are not really happening in boys. Then in girls, they’re getting super early puberty, so I don’t know. I’m not totally sure.

Nicki: I think he’s saying when transitioning 10,000 years ago, like height increased, bones, teeth, all that improved.

Robb: Height decreased. Things only started to improve when food quality improved.

Nicki: Right, right, right, right, right, okay.

Robb: Otherwise people were sick, short, and died early. This is one of the things that folks dismiss about the paleo diet. They’ll say well, people died in their 30s. The average lifespan was about 30 years old when you factored in infant mortality rates.

Nicki: Maybe the change in nutrition manifested instantly in these improvements in health because it was such a stark, the increased protein-

Robb: It was a massive selection pressure. Yeah.

Nicki: I’m struggling here with my words, but we’re so robust that it’s taking multiple generations for this sugar thing to really take us down at the kneecaps.

Robb: You could look at that I guess that way.

Nicki: The positive input of better nutrition manifests immediately and we see that in people who move from a vegan diet or who have been under-eating protein and then they increase their protein. They clean up their food and they feel better. A lot of things improve all at once, but humans generally are resilient enough that it takes awhile for this kind of sugar obesity thing to just really cull us.

Robb: Potentially. It really isn’t so much a time factor. It’s how bad is the diet, in my mind, is what the thing is. Our diets have gotten progressively worse over time, and so I think that we’re going to see a heightened effect here. The development of sickle cell anemia is one of the fastest, most rapid genetic alterations in a population that we’ve ever seen, and it was in response to the swiddin cultures doing slash and burn and creating massive new environments for mosquitoes to exist in. It would clear areas. There was the ability for more standing water to exist and then people lived in thatched huts, which provided this amazing reservoir, habitat for mosquitoes to live in.

Nicki: Habitat for them.

Robb: The malarial load was so gnarly that this sickle cell anemia adaptation, when people have two genes for sickle cell anemia, they tend to die rather young, but they are protected from the malaria plasmodium. If you are heterozygous, you only have one gene, then you are protected against the malaria, but you tend not to die excessively young from the sickle cell anemia. Sickle cell anemia adaptation is a one quarter fatality rate. It’s a 25% fatality rate.

Robb: That’s jaw dropping within those populations, and it’s worth noting that people have moved into Europe or North America who have historically had sickle cell anemia as part of their genetics. Sickle cell anemia, when it is in environments which does not have that sickle cell or the malaria load, that trait dies out rather quickly because it is so gnarly. 25% fatality rate, and then there’s morbidity and mortality associated with just the heterozygous. It really, in my mind, relates back more to the intensity of the thing that we’re facing. I would just argue that when you and I were kids, we had access to far more processed food than what our parents did.

Nicki: For sure.

Robb: Our parents, it was almost unheard of. Now today it’s almost unheard of that people eat anything that isn’t processed food, and I think that those chickens are just kind of coming home to roost. Then add to that this kind of vegan, save the world, animal products are going to destroy everything idea, and you’re further removing nutrient dense foods from the diet.

Nicki: Right, and then the associated lifestyle aspects too. When we were kids, when our parents were kids, surely people were outside all day long.

Robb: Right.

Nicki: Now most kids are indoors the bulk of the day.

Robb: Right.

Nicki: It all kind of compounds together.

Robb: Indeed it does. John, interesting question. Again, I don’t know if I did, if we did any type of justice on answering it, but definitely an interesting question.

Nicki: Okay. Any other thoughts before we wrap today’s show, hubs?

Robb: I try not to think. I just find it gets me in trouble.

Nicki: All right, folks. Thank you for joining us for another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. Remember to check out our show’s sponsor, LMNT, for all your electrolyte needs. Remember to get your hands on some Grapefruit Salt before it’s gone. You can do that at drinklmnt.com/robb. That’s drink, L-M-N-T.com/R-O-B-B, and join us in The Healthy Rebellion if you want to take part in any of the fun things we have upcoming this summer, including our book club, the breath work challenge, the rucking challenge, survival courses, and lots more. You can do that at join.thehealthyrebellion.com.

Robb: Bye, everybody.

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

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Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

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Show Notes:

This is the third installment of our “fireside chat” with Diana Rodgers. Diana and I talk frequently, usually comparing notes on some of the insanity (and bright spots) we see we see in the food and regenerative ag space. Each time we talk we usually say “we should have recorded that!” So now we are.

We dig into her recent trip to Brazil and talk about how the developing world may end up being the model for what truly regenerative/sustainable food systems look like. The short story is it’s not likely to be 100% White Oak Pastures but also not 100% traditional industrial ag/animal husbandry. Optimizing these systems, both in terms of food production, improving economics and systems integration will require a lot of flexibility and creativity.

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

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Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/briefing/adolescent-mental-health-crisis-us.html

Podcast Questions:

1. Predicting the Future of Food | Bon Appétit [15:55]

CT says:

Hello Diana and Robb (and teams),

I was hoping one or both of you had heard about this article and the concepts it’s talking about.  The author references Dr. Morgaine Gaye who pens herself as a food futurologist – though I’ve no idea what her doctoral title is actually attributable to – and her ideas of Air Protein.  What the heck is this?!  It says that there’s a high tech fermentation to turn CO2 into chicken (or whatever you want).  This sounds outrageous, laughable at best to me.  And as Robb always talks about, very carbon tunnel vision.  Was just wondering if you guys could offer your thoughts on this one as I’d never heard of it before nor had I heard of this Dr. Gaye woman and her website was pretty sparse with biographical details.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/plates-of-the-future

Love both your podcasts and newsletters.  Robb your substack is great!  Just enough snark and humor which is right up my alley.

Diana – I’ve referenced some of your articles in newsletters to family members asking for nutrition info, it’s been so helpful!

Keep it up both of you!

Cheers,

CT

2. What’s up with Sunflower Oil in my Fish Oil? [22:59]

Bryan:

Hi!  Just looking for clarity on the added sunflower oil to the fish oil.  My wife has a nutrition business and we were researching fish oils.  I’ve followed your stuff for over a decade.

Fish oil being a PUFA, inflammatory, added to fish oil doesn’t make sense to us other than being a carrier oil or to fill a bottle.

Just curious and looking for a good product to refer our clients to with a good conscience.

Thanks!

Bryan

3. Is this Hypernatremia? [25:51]

Cassandra says:

Hi Rob and Nickie! My name is Cassandra and I am a 57-year-old woman with lymphocytic colitis, gastritis and intestinal metaplasia. I’ve been a carnivore for about two years, mostly consuming fatty ribeye with beef tallow . Regardless, my symptoms have flared up considerably.

I am also a Personal Trainer of 25 years and work about 60 hours a week. I walk about 15,000 steps a day and lift weights daily for 90 ish minutes. I had done so earlier that day.

I have a clear light infrared sauna and I have just gotten up to 150° this past week. Prior to that I’ve been getting out at 135° -144°. I always use LMNT prior to the sauna, and continue to drink it after the sauna. I only use a quarter to half of the packet as it’s too salty otherwise.I use about 10 to 16 ounces of water for half a packet.

Yesterday evening I spent about 30 minutes in the hot sauna, and then drank the electrolyte drink afterwards. Because it was late at night I did not notice that I poured the whole packet in before adding water. So as I was drinking the LMNT and the water, it tasted mild as usual but when I got to the bottom a bolus of LMNT swept into my mouth and I swallowed before I could stop it. I didn’t think anything of it and went to bed, but a few hours later I was vomiting and severe diarrhea that lasted throughout the night and into this afternoon the next day. I’ve been tired and weak and unable to work. Did I cause hypernatremia? Thank you for your input. I thoroughly enjoy your podcast

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03718247

Podcast Questions:

1. Credibility without Higher Education [10:57]

Ashlyn says:

Hi Guys,

For the past year I have done a complete 180° as far as diet, exercise, and the way I view the world. I would love to become a dietitian and study the links between diet and autoimmunity (I have MS) but the financial factor of university is too extreme. I want to spread the news of what I believe to friends and family, but how do I gain credibility? I don’t want to say “it’s true because I watched a YouTube video.” Do you have any advice on how I can find/study credible information and start diving deeper into the world of dietetics?

2. Iron Overload [27:14]

Sarah says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

Let me start by saying that I truly love your podcast and never get tired of listening to you two! Whether I am in the mood for nutrition science, current news, or just a good conversation, your podcast always ticks all the boxes. I can’t think of another podcast where I can get as much information while simultaneously getting a good giggle. So thank you.

My question is in regards to iron overload, sometimes referred to as iron dysfunction. Have you heard or read the work of Morley M. Robbins? It is based on the premise that so called iron deficiency anemia is in fact not a deficiency at all, but in fact iron dysfunction which results in an overload of iron in the tissue, subsequently causing all the problems that are often diagnosed as anemia. One of the important points he makes is that we suffer from iron dysfunction because of a lack of bio-available copper, as well as a lack of retinol.

I have myself had lower blood iron levels for quite some time, even after incorporating grassfed beef and organs into my diet on a regular basis. I have been eating a (now dairy-inclusive) paleo diet for many years, and recently switched to a more animal-based type diet, and saw massive improvements in energy, but still not optimal, particularly on the first week of my cycle.

It would be really cool if you guys did a full episode on iron, iron absorption and the likes, or perhaps you have already done one and I have missed it?

If you could comment on the work of Morley Robbins, that would be extremely helpful.

Thanks so much,

Sarah

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

https://tropicanacrunch.com/

Podcast Questions:

1. Comment on air travel and risk of infection for your reference. [12:23]

Marti says:

Hi Robb,

Just listened to the latest podcast, great stuff that you and Nikki are doing! You had mentioned that there should have been a study done regarding air travel and I believe the main reason there wasn’t one done is because from previous tuberculosis studies they already knew the possibility of transmission was very low on airplanes. I can’t seem to find the study I wanted to share, but here is a link to get you started on the research if you are so inclined: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20185096/. There is also this: https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/populations/travelers/default.htm. If you aren’t familiar with TB, it is highly contagious, and the leading infectious disease killer in the world. So, for them to not be concerned about TB patients on airplanes, but concerned about covid, well………. You see where I am going with this, and as you know the masks are useless.

Again, great podcast, cheers!

Marti R

2. Kidney stones [14:43]

Brian says:

Hi Robb and Nicki – I recently had a stone (ow!!) and my tests came back showing high uric acid. My doctor recommended that I cut back dramatically on my (admittedly) high meat consumption and other paleo-friendly foods. Any suggestions for lowering uric acid levels while maintaining current food consumption? I consume minimal alcohol and sugary foods and intermittent fast. Thank you!!

3. Diet and or supplements for sun allergy (photosensitivity) AKA Polymorphous Light Eruption (PMLE)? [18:41]

Joe says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

Thanks for all of your great content!

Do you know of any supplements, food options, or other treatments to help with a sun allergy, also known as photosensitivity and Polymorphous Light Eruption (PMLE)?

This article describes the condition pretty well, based on my experience:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/a_to_z/sun-allergy-photosensitivity-a-to-z

I’m pretty sure I’m now on my third year of PMLE. Last year when it started, I spoke to my doctor on the phone (due to no face-to-face appointments during covid) and sent her a photo and she said it was probably photosensitivity. I was prescribed an antihistamine called fexofenadine (180 mg) which I’m not sure helped either way. I was also referred to a dermatologist but by the time the appointment came through, some months later, it had already cleared up, so I canceled the appointment as there was nothing to see.

The red, sore, itchy rash only appears on my face (so far). We’ve just had our first good week of sun here in the UK and after some time at the beach, I now have it on my face. Last year it went away after about a month and then didn’t really come back for the rest of the summer. I had to stay out of the sun a lot for that first month though, which was a pain.

I see beta carotene is recommended on some sites as a treatment or preventative but in doses of 180 mg a day. I’ve seen it on sale at 15 mg doses. Would 180 mg a day be safe (or turn me orange)?

From what I’ve read, photosensitivity or PMLE is potentially a histamine issue. Are there diet changes that could help? I also get hayfever and eczema, which I think are in the same family.

Thanks again for all the great content you two put out there.

Joe

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

Gluten-free diet can ameliorate the symptoms of non-celiac autoimmune diseases 

Podcast Questions:

1. Anthony J Leonardi and Covid/Vaccine Immune Depletion and Reinfection [19:00]

Kristi says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

Very long time listener. Thank you so much for your show and for dipping into different topics, I love it.

My question is, do you know anything about Anthony J Leonardi? He has apparently done a lot of work on and talked about some sort of immune depletion that is caused by both covid and the covid vaccines: called T-cell exhaustion. Something similar to AIDS as far as I currently understand. He has also talked about the “fraud” of the Great Barrington Declaration, I guess because of people getting severe covid reinfections.

Although I have a bit of scientific background, the papers linked to me are beyond my knowledge, and the fraud claim is a bit baffling to me. I’m wondering if you have looked into this at all or know anything about either the T-cell exhaustion or the reinfections.

https://www.drugtargetreview.com/news/81320/t-cell-exhaustion-may-limit-long-term-immunity-in-covid-19-patients/

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.abe4782

https://twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1514199036319834124?s=20&t=CjqEIQspcmpJBTV3kCTBsw

Thanks,

Kristi Herlein

2. Early Eating Habits of 8 months – 18 months? [32:23]

Getty says:

Hey Robb,

All the usuals, you’ve been super helpful and changed my life, been on and off your stuff for 8+ years.  Also, my bad if someone has asked this before over the many years.

My wife and I welcomed our first born in June of 2021, breastfeeding and been introducing pureed fruits/veggies at home for the past two months.  Now we are heading into the pincer grip stage and curious on any recommendations on companies that have products that are quality for the lifestyle.  Cheerios are obviously not on the table, but the ease of something in that arena would be appreciated.

Keep up the great work and been loving LMNT

Getty

Serenity Kids Puffs – Get 25% off your first order with code SAVE25

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick-care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio.

Nicki: The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your bridges in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Robb: Hello. I am Mr. Robb, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Rebellion.

Nicki: Wow, I wasn’t expecting that one.

Robb: Yeah, I just channeled a little Ricardo Montalban.

Nicki: Yes. I think this is like the third or fourth time you’ve mentioned our friend Ricardo.

Robb: He’s cool.

Nicki: You always go back to Ricardo. He’s like just in your back pocket.

Robb: Maybe he’s in my front pocket, who knows. Who knows?

Nicki: Welcome everybody to another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is episode 107. Sorry, we missed you all last week. Hope you had a fabulous Easter holiday, if you celebrate Easter. We had our very first white Easter. It snowed all night, the evening before and the morning of, and-

Robb: One of the largest snow accumulations for the Flathead Valley this season, so, yeah.

Nicki: So anyway, that was fun and exciting.

Robb: Yep.

Nicki: We still like, the girls still like to hunt for eggs, so we still did all of that. Zoe and Sagan both tripped at various points and their baskets spilled out and the eggs sank deep in the snow. So then they’re like gathering up handfuls of snow and pine needles and all of that. When they finally brought their baskets inside, we dumped it out over on a beach towel in the living room, just so that we wouldn’t get all of that mess on the carpet. It was like the amount of pieces of nature that Sagan had accumulated in her Easter basket was kind of striking. Yes, anyway.

Robb: I’m nodding vigorous agreement. It was pretty good.

Nicki: Yeah, but we had a good time. Spring Rebel Reset has started, is starting. We did the kickoff call last Friday, and this week is the seven-day carb test week. So folks are testing to see what amount and types of carbs they do or do not do well with that ends this week. And then Monday, April 25th, is the first day of the 30-day reset, first day of the actual 30 days and the last day to join. So if you are thinking about joining or want to join, be sure to get in before midnight on Monday, April 25th, because otherwise after that date, we cut it off and close the group and we progress through the 30 days as a team. So you got to get in by that time.

Nicki: Actually, I have a couple of quotes that I wanted to share from people who were in our most recent reset in the winter time.

Nicki: “The reset really helped me reset my habits in short order. I was blown away by the community at The Healthy Rebellion, totally unexpected. I’ve been a long-time follower of Robb’s work and listener of Robb and Nicki’s podcast. I signed up for The Healthy Rebellion to further my goal of supporting people I think are making a positive difference in the world. Next thing you know, I’m doing a reset, making new friends and getting back on track to my optimal health,” and that one was from Corey.

Nicki: And then another one here from Cassie, “Even though I’ve been following a paleo diet for more than a decade and following Rob for as long this reset was exactly what I needed to get aligned with who I really am. A million thanks to Rob, Nicki, Jessica, Squatchy and the entire rebel family for their support and friendship; excuse me. The sense of community this little online portal provide is invaluable.”

Nicki: So if you needed any other arm-twisting for joining us in this Spring 2022 Reset, Cassie and Corey, yep, Cassie and Corey, hopefully that helped.

Robb: Not to hard sell it, but there’s lots of places that offer much less for 10 times more just for resetty-type stuff. So if you have any thought about doing something new, getting in shape for summer, just really establishing new habits and getting solid community-

Nicki: Creating some bonds with some people, some like-minded people, I feel like we’ve got kind of the spot.

Robb: Yep.

Nicki: Okay, so that was all of our housekeeping items and announcements. Before we get into the actual meat and potatoes of the show, we wanted to dedicate this episode to the memory of Brian Tate. He was a dear member of our Healthy Rebellion community, and he passed away a couple weeks ago on April 6th. I’d like to read some words written by one of our rebels and actually, she’s one of our moderators, Alison Waddington, that she shared in the Rebellion. She and Brian became quite good friends, and I think probably she knew him better than anyone else in the Healthy Rebellion. So they had a really close bond, and she did a brilliant job capturing the essence of this amazing human. So these words are Allison’s. She wrote a very lengthy piece in the Rebellion, and I’ve kind of chosen a several paragraphs, but it’s not the whole thing.

Nicki: She says, “Brian was the funniest, smartest, toughest man. He was truly a rebel, a certified lion-hearted rebel. Brian was diagnosed with liver disease at the very young age of 17. If you follow his Instagram page at training after ileostomy, you’ll see how dedicated and determined he was to become the very best version of himself. If you scroll back to his first post, you will see him age 29 after his first liver transplant in 2004. He had suffered multiple bone fractures from a decade of prednisone, muscle wasting and curvature of the spine from the disease process. Still, he was determined. In 2011, he underwent a second liver transplant due to the autoimmune disease, primary biliary cirrhosis. He faced life head on including the 2015 ileostomy that he endured. He candidly admitted that he owed his recovery to Robb Wolf and the paleo solution, which gave him back his health.”

Nicki: “Brian was a warrior who proudly bore his scars. Brian once made a six-part video for me on how to make sauerkraut and his father served as the cameraman. Brian suggested purple cabbage, whole garlic pieces, sliced baby cucumbers, and plenty of Redmond salt. I followed the recipe to the letter and was rewarded with the most amazing sauerkraut that I ever ate. Brian was a whiz in the kitchen. Please look up his other Instagram account @bft139 and consider copying a recipe or two. Brian would be honored.”

Nicki: “Brian worked at a grocery store chain in Scotland driving the delivery van. He told me he never envisioned a life doing that, but that he was determined to be the best delivery man the world had ever seen, he was. He would climb a half dozen flights of stairs while carrying all of the heavy bags. For him, it was an opportunity to physically push himself. He made workouts out of everything. He told me the funniest stories of how the women that he delivered groceries to would ask him to come in, to hang a picture, move heavy furniture, and even unblock a toilet. I was literally crying with laughter as he regaled the toilet story complete with water splashing and sloshing and his soggy shoes.”

Nicki: “Brian was a badass weightlifter as documented on his Instagram page. He challenged himself every day in his home gym in so many ways. He just never gave up. He was never too tired to pick up something heavy.”

Nicki: “Brian was a great friend. When my son was killed last year, Brian messaged me every single day telling me how I had to go on, even when I felt like giving up.” He said, ‘Graham would want you to live and to live well.’ That is who Brian was. He was caring, sincere, relentless, and he never took life for granted.”

Nicki: “Please remember Brian as the lovely and strong man that he was. Go out and lift something heavy today. Eat a fine meal and maybe laugh at something inappropriate. These are things that Brian would want and no matter what never, ever, ever squander the gift of life and health that you have.”

Nicki: So anyway, I think those last words and just the way that Brian lived, like not taking things for granted, enjoying the fun, making even the most tedious things into a game, into a workout, being the best at it, even if it’s not the thing you want to be doing, like these are all incredible mindset things that we all can learn from and do in our own lives.

Robb: Thanks for taking that one.

Nicki: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we’ve had several people in the Rebellion lose loved ones, like Alison lost her son last year. We’ve had people lose spouses, but I think Brian is the first member that we’ve actually lost. Many, many of our community members form really tight relationships with each other, like Alison and Brian did, and I know Waleed and Brian had a tight relationship. Brian was a part of a rebel bud crew in our resets and so he had Thomas and just we get close in there. So anyway, this was kind of the gut check for the whole community. And for even those who didn’t know Brian or who were newer members, Alison’s post clearly, as you just heard, really did a wonderful job of bringing him to life for those that didn’t know him.

Robb: I guess this was hard for me on a lot of different levels, not the least of which is Alison in her longer piece relayed like a bit of hero worship on Brian’s part towards me, which, fuck, I don’t even, it’s… I wrote a book, I do a podcast-

Nicki: But people like Brian take that information and go and do it, right? So like sometimes it’s hard for you when you hear stuff like that, because you feel like you didn’t-

Robb: Deserve that.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: But Brian, I mean, clearly like he didn’t let his original diagnosis just like dictate how his life was going to turn out, like he took it by the horns. He learned. He was constantly learning and asking questions and doing things to make his life the best he could make it.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Okay, we’re going to shift gears and go into the rest of our episode now. You’re ready?

Robb: I will follow your lead on this one.

Nicki: You’ll rally? Okay.

Robb: You’re the anchor, anchor person on this one, so yeah.

Nicki: Am I an anchor or is that you’re saying I’m a ball and chain.

Robb: I think that we’ve explored those potentialities, yes, yes.

Nicki: Okay, we have a news topic. Robb, what’s our news topic.

Robb: Gluten-free diet can ameliorate the symptoms of non-celiac autoimmune disease. It’s cool and that you will frequently see in the online world. Folks will say, “Well, if you don’t have celiac, then there’s absolutely no reason to remove gluten,” and we’ve just seen this so many times. I know this is my ongoing kind of consternation with the evidence-based medicine, evidence-based nutrition scene. We don’t want to operate in the demon haunted world, which was Carl Sagan’s book, and kind of warning against kind of mysticism and in pseudo-scientific thought, we don’t need that. We don’t want it so much of the way that COVID was handled is straight out of the demon-haunted world. Like it actually wasn’t based around science or facts and it was emotion and reactivity, but at the same time so much of our world operates within empiricism and absent or randomized-controlled trial.

Robb: Like if you’re trying to laminate a couple of pieces of wood together, there’s probably some engineering specs that suggest optimal ways to do it. And then if you don’t have those perfect ways of doing it, then you have to improvise. There’s not actually a fucking randomized control trial that tells you where it is. There’s not a review board that tells you that it was right or wrong. Like you get to empirically see, did the wood laminate together in the way that allowed you to do this thing?

Robb: We have just seen so many people that had never been gluten-free or dairy-free or the combo, basically kind of a paleo reset. They had never done that their whole life, and they maybe would report, “I don’t really think I have any problems.” And then they pull all the stuff out or one of these things like gluten and lo and behold that a bunch of problems that were just normal. It was just their day-to-day experience went away because for the first time in their life, this injurious nutritional item was removed.

Robb: This is where this gluten-free diet can ameliorate the symptoms of non-celiac autoimmune disease. It’s a review of studies looking at exactly this intervention, putting folks with autoimmune conditions on a gluten-free diet and seeing how their symptomology progressed. It’s remarkably consistent that the autoimmune symptoms improved. Not all the studies showed that, but almost all of them did and with a very high consistency to it.

Robb: So this is another one, these things, where autoimmune diseases are right behind cardiovascular disease and type-2 diabetes in causative features of morbidity and mortality in developed countries, and the standard of care is abysmal in addressing this stuff. If you have a flare, prednisone or something like that can save your life, but that is not long-term solution. It’s not a great long-term solution. I’m not comfortable with it. Being on immunosuppressant drugs, and you’re only 50 years old or something like that, like it doesn’t bode well for the remaining time you have on this earth.

Robb: So a simple dietary intervention that seems to have real ethic E is something that we need to explore more. Again, this is… I can’t count the number of people that we’ve had, to the degree that my work has had real success is largely due to this piece like this gut autoimmune piece. Like there’s lots of ways to get skinny, lots of ways to lose weight. But if you’ve got some complex metabolic, autoimmune and gut issues, your options for remedy in that situation are limited. I’ll just push back against all of the kind of evidence-based folks.

Robb: Maybe this is a Procrustes in bed that I’m laying out to play to my own strengths like very great glass Manion kind of set up, but I would stand by it in all. The flip side again is I think that there’s lots of ways to lose weight, lots of ways to lean out. But when we have complex gut autoimmune issues, I think that these elimination diets are singularly efficacious and much lower risk, a much higher reward relative to the standard of care. So it’s just something that folks have just really need to be aware of.

Robb: Doctors need to be aware of it, and these evidence-based folks be aware of it, too. Also, this is part of that risk reward calculus. What are we asking of folks? Like if somebody knows that they have MS or rheumatoid arthritis and “Hey, let’s try an elimination diet. Are you game for that,” if they’re like, “Fuck, no, I don’t want to,” then okay, fine. But if they’re interested in the potential that some diet tweaks could dramatically improve their health, then let’s move forward on that and just give this shot. Let’s continue to study it so we can better understand who it works for or who it doesn’t work for and what other tweaks and modifications we need to do to make this stuff even more effective.

Nicki: I like it. Okay, this-

Robb: I was snarfed up before, but the Brian thing got me.

Nicki: Got you a little more.

Robb: He, yep.

Nicki: The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company, LMNT. If you are feeling low energy, don’t reach for the caffeine. You might just need some electrolytes. LMNT has a flavor for every taste bud, citrus taste bud, every taste bud, citrus, salt, raspberry, orange, watermelon. You can even combine them for new flavor combos, even spicy options like lemon habanero and mango chili. And as I’ve mentioned in a previous episode, the ever popular grapefruit salt will be making a limited time comeback in just a few weeks now.

Robb: Just a couple of weeks now, yep.

Nicki: So stay salty out there, folks. Grab your LMNT, drink L, M, N, T dot com slash robb. That’s drinklmnt.com/robb.

Robb: LMNT has a flavor for every taste comma, bud.

Nicki: I could have said it like that. Yeah, bud.

Nicki: All right. We’ve got two questions for you this week. The first one is from Christie.

Nicki: “Hi Robb and Nicki, very long time listener. Thank you so much for your show and for dipping into different topics. I love it. My question is, do you know anything about Anthony J. Leonardi? He has apparently done a lot of work on and talked about some sort of immune depletion that is caused by both COVID and the COVID vaccines called T-cell exhaustion, something similar to AIDS as far as I currently understand. He’s also talked about the fraud of the Great Barrington Declaration, I guess, because of people getting severe COVID reinfections. Although I have a bit of a scientific background, the papers linked to me are beyond my knowledge and the fraud claim is a bit baffling to me. I’m wondering if you have looked into this at all, or know anything about either the T-cell exhaustion or the reinfections.”

Robb: This Dr. Leonardi’s work was news to me. He specifically was a new entity to me. I have heard a bit about this T-cell exhaustion, and I’m not an immunologist and so I may be getting out over my ski tips. But in some ways, this reminds me a bit of original antigenic sin in a way with the way that the T-cells can get modified in their response.

Robb: What is particularly perplexing in this thing is that people who had severe COVID infections were less likely to have this kind of T-cell exhaustion, which in mild infections the basic takeaway was that people were more likely to have subsequent infections based… But the thing that’s important to understand here, this is all based out of cell culture in vitro studies. This isn’t really looking at or people actually getting infected at greater rates and whatnot.

Robb: So there’s a little bit of wiggle room there. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised that what’s being suggested there is accurate that ironically a more severe infection produces a more robust, longer standing immunity. I wouldn’t be surprised by that. The irony and all that though is that you need to nearly die from COVID to get the really like seemingly robust response. I guess that’s one part of this.

Robb: The other part of this, and it’s interesting, I didn’t actually see his specific critiques about the Great Barrington Declaration. But Nicki, you-

Nicki: Well, I mean-

Robb: We were chatting about it.

Nicki: Yeah, and I didn’t see his specific thing on that either, but the Great Barrington Declaration their whole point was let’s protect those who are most vulnerable to infection and at higher risk, so obviously the elderly and anybody who’s immunocompromised. And then let the younger healthier people kind of take precaution, but continue working and let’s not close everything down. That was kind of the basic gist behind it.

Nicki: I think his claim of fraud is probably that they’re saying like, “Then you get COVID and you reach herd immunities.” But is it really her immunity if you can catch it again, right?

Robb: Or is it really fraud if that’s just part of maybe that doesn’t apply 100%, maybe–

Nicki: -Right. Because other things, you get the chicken pox and you don’t tend to catch it again, right? You get the flu and you can, which is what I think COVID is more similar to that. There are different strains, and so just because you had one doesn’t mean that you are immune to other future strains.

Robb: Right, not dissimilar to the influenza virus, yeah. I guess there’s just-

Nicki: But I wouldn’t call that fraud like that seems like a really harsh critique of something that arguably had we followed, what the esteemed scientist who made up the Great Barrington Declaration. Because let’s remember, they’re all from like top-tier institutions and highly-acclaimed individuals who have been totally slandered and drugged through the mud throughout this whole thing. But had we followed their recommendation, would our economy be in the situation that it is? Would we be facing all of these food shortages?

Robb: The study that was performed suggested that, and I can grab that and put it in the show notes, but it suggested that all of the lockdowns, all the things that we did with all the costs that were just now kind of figuring out, slowed the spread by about 2.5%. Didn’t stop it. Didn’t change the area under the curve of the total number of people who were going to get it. Every person on the planet is eventually going to be exposed to this virus, well, one way or the other, whether they’re vaccinated or unvaccinated. Because the vaccines are non-sterilizing and best they maybe offer a mitigation and severity. Unless you are older or metabolically challenged, then your likelihood of survival was better than getting in the car and driving anyway. So I still think their basic thesis holds a lot of water and it’s interesting.

Robb: Christie linked to this Dr. Leonardi’s couple of papers and then his Twitter thread. The interesting thing in his Twitter thread, he was basically calling for folks, and we have all this in the show notes. People can click on this and check it out themselves, highly recommend it. But he was asking for people to kind of self-report if they’ve been reinfected with COVID, which is fine. It kind of-

Nicki: He probably should have done a poll and then had people click.

Robb: It was a poll.

Nicki: Oh, it was a poll? Okay.

Robb: It was a poll. It was a poll, and he had some additional information in there. But I was just kind of reading the comments and I guess it cuts both ways on this. But the bulk of the comments were, it was things like this. My horrible daughter-in-law has convinced my son that they don’t need to wear masks and they don’t mask their four year old kid. It’s so dangerous and they don’t follow the science.

Robb: And 20 minutes before this, I was reading Vinay Prasad’s piece on how the CDC recommendations for masked air travel has been rolled back. He has been a tireless champion of like the Bangladesh studies where the cloth masks did absolutely nothing to mitigate transmission. The N95 masks worn absolutely perfectly, not fiddling with your face, not putting them on, not taking them off, like worn like in a surgical theater made, it seemed to reduce transmission by about 30% and literally, nobody wears them like that other than in a hospital setting, so. And he was talking about how on the airplane, just the fact that even though it’s absolutely ridiculous that you can take the mask off, take a drink then you need to put the mask, like it just invalidates the whole goddamn thing. Like it is just theater. So-

Nicki: Airplanes have really phenomenal air circulation.

Robb: Which further, and he made the point, too, that would’ve been an easy question to answer in the CDC for whatever reason has chosen not to study that. There has not been an actual study like a clustered randomized trial to be able to determine it. Are there increased rates of transmission on planes, increased transmission with mask, without mask? This could have been answered, and there’s been a decision not to do this. Because we haven’t fucking done it.

Nicki: Well, and the whole air circulation thing. We had Clementina Russo on a Salty Talk earlier last year, I think, and all about the air circulation being one of the things that could have been studied and implemented early, early, early, and prevented a bunch of this other, this mess that we’re in that has had lots and lots and lots of knock on consequence, downstream consequences including where we are today with facing potential increasing food cost, inflation at 8.5%.

Robb: On the books reported.

Nicki: At least that’s being declared. It’s probably-

Robb: Could be double that.

Nicki: … at some, a few percentage points above that for sure, anyway.

Robb: So Christie, I’m glad you ping this to us. I think that this is an interesting topic, the T-cell exhaustion, given that both vaccine and non-vaccine exposure to COVID like particles has a potential to produce this phenomena. It’s kind of like I don’t know what to do. I’m not really too sure what to say about it. It is kind of ironic that it seems according to this information that being metabolically healthy and not getting a severe case of COVID leaves one more predisposed to this T-cell exhaustion. Like, I’m not sure about that. There’s a lot of moving parts to this that I’m just not at all sure of. Even within that T-cell exhaustion story, it reminds me again to original antigen XN where there’s kind of an imprinting to that specific virulent particle. So I don’t think that it has broader ranging implications from beyond that.

Robb: And then the final thing, I guess kind of putting a bow on all the stuff, or maybe it’s not the final thing, but it’s a thought is that in general, COVID has gotten less and less problematic from the perspective of killing people. I had just opened up a New York Time piece, “Good morning, coronavirus cases have risen in major cities, hospitalizations have not.” This is more of this kind of hand ringing of like, “Well, is it going to lag? Is it going this, is it going to that?”

Robb: But early, early in this whole story, there were lots of folks that have tracked other airborne diseases like influenza and generally something that starts off as both virulent and dangerous. Like it spreads relatively easy and also can kill you. It tends to kill you less and less because that’s really not the end play for infectious disease, from an evolutionary perspective. It would like to infect everybody possibly can and not really kill anyone because that’s not helping it either.

Robb: So just COVID itself has become less of a killer. It’s become more, more spreadable and that is another one of these characteristics. So at the end of the day, I don’t know what Dr. Leonardi has to say here really matters at all because it’s becoming less and less of an issue with it, causing severe disease across the board. It still raises all these other questions, the way that we responded, the fact that this is almost certainly a consequence of a lab leak that the United States government funded and that the people managing the response to COVID were the ones that funded the gain of function research. There’s all kinds of shit that we actually should be super up in arms, and there should be some heads on pikes as a consequence of this, but I don’t know. Do you have any other thoughts about this?

Nicki: I just think that and the takeaway is like what can we do? Like we have no control over what the CDC or the WHO or any of these response teams do. None of us knew that the government was funding this stuff. We didn’t have a say in that. What we do have control over where we do have agency is making ourselves as strong and resilient and metabolically healthy as possible. Because that is how we protect against not just COVID, but aging-

Robb: All the other shit that’s gonna kill ya.

Nicki: Any kind of… Yeah, yeah. So I think that’s the biggest takeaway from this. I think and, again, we’ve said this a hundred times in the last two years like if we had just had a rallying cry like, “Come on, folks. This is our chance as Americans. We’re an overweight nation. Now is your time. Let’s lose 20 pounds. We’re going to do a walking program. Everybody’s going to get their 10,000 steps.” This could have been just this unifying, amazing health-focused time and history, and instead it’s been an absolute debacle.

Robb: Instead people gained on average 25.

Nicki: People gained and we lost countless unnecessary lives, but we’ve been there. We’ve talked about that.

Nicki: Okay, our second question is from Getty, early eating habits of eight months to 18-month olds.

Nicki: “Hey, Robb. All the usuals, you’ve been super helpful and changed my life, been on and off your stuff for eight plus years. Also my bad if someone has asked this before over the many years. My wife and I welcomed our first born in June of 2021. Breastfeeding and been introducing pureed, fruits, and veggies at home for the past two months. Now we are heading into the pincer grip stage and curious on any recommendations on companies that have products that are quality for the lifestyle. Cheerios are obviously not on the table, but the ease of something in that arena would be appreciated. Keep up the great work and been loving LMNT.”

Robb: Man, the main thing that comes to mind is Serenity Kids. They have some puffs that are pretty cool. They’re mainly veggie. I think they have veggie and collagen-base in them. I forget exactly, but I mean they’re super clean. They’re a good company. They’re good.

Nicki: They also do those pastured meat, grass-fed beef and pastured meat.

Robb: Yeah. They start off as a baby food.

Nicki: Baby food, so like the pureed baby food in a pouch that is very convenient for, when folks are on the road and you want something high quality.

Robb: Yeah. But I was reading just specifically that’s kind of like-

Nicki: -Totally, I’m just giving more context to Serenity Kids.

Robb: And then, I mean, for us, we did a lot of Jerky, just-

Nicki: Not at eight months though like-

Robb: You’re saying 8 to 18 months.

Nicki: Right, right.

Robb: Didn’t we let the kids gum on jerky and bacon and stuff like that?

Nicki: They would suck, yeah. They would hold a piece and suck on it. You got to, yep, little pieces of bacon, mm-hmm .

Robb: You mean you have to monitor your kids while they eat in their children. I just usually went and took a shower and turned the music up super loud and gave them-

Nicki: Ice-cube sized, grape-sized.

Robb: It’s grape that I put a little bit of Vaseline on to make them super slippery, yeah, yeah.

Nicki: Okay. Folks, we’re joking. This is sarcasm in case you turn down.

Robb: Sarcasm, sorry.

Nicki: But, yeah, like anything that you can. I think he’s asking for things like the puff, something kind of commercial that’s easy and shelf stable and kind of packs easily on the go.

Robb: Well, the Serenity Kids puffs are great. I think all whole foods carry them and you can order them online, so Thrive Market carries them.

Nicki: Yeah. But I’m not aware of any other companies that currently have something like that.

Robb: The Serenity Kids stuff is-

Nicki: It’s unique because they-

Robb: ,,, pretty unique.

Nicki: … they really focus on the regenerative aspect of all this stuff, so. But otherwise, there’s lots of resources out there on baby-led weaning. I think Lily Nichols also has some stuff on feeding, feeding youngsters as well.

Robb: Right.

Nicki: So hopefully that was helpful. I think that’s all we have for this show. Remember to check out our show sponsor at drinklmnt.com/robb.

Robb: Remember our Give a Salt program. If you have somebody important in your life, check out the LMNT Give a Salt program. Basically, you nominate that person and then LMNT sends them salt and sends you salt, too.

Nicki: Just to spread the salt, and that URL is drinklmnt.com/giveasalt. And then I think sometimes we can lack a little motivation and especially as the winter kind of clings on to spring and there is overcast and whatnot, but like just remember Brian. This episode is, again, dedicated to him. Lift something heavy, whatever’s heavy for you. Get out there, do something. Walk like we all can kind of seize the day and do more to living most of our lives.

Robb: Great.

Nicki: Love you all. Get some sunshine if you have any in your area. We don’t, or actually we have little bit-

Robb: We have a little bit right now, but we’re inside doing this damn thing.

Nicki: We might need to go take a quick walk.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Hope you all have a wonderful weekend and we’ll catch you next week.

Robb: Bye, everybody.

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

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News topic du jour:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/03/the-virus-hunting-nonprofit-at-the-center-of-the-lab-leak-controversy

Podcast Questions:

1. Functional Medicine & Where’s the Beef? [17:57]

Lisa says:

I have a double question for the healthy rebellion!  My teenage daughter really doesn’t like much meat (I think it’s a texture thing she will eat sloppy joes for some reason like a champ as well as fish we catch in the lake) and I’m having a hard time upping her intake.   Is there a decent protein powder I can have her add to her smoothly bowls she’s obsessed with while I keep trying the soups and broths you mentioned to another emailer?  The health of our kids is of great concern to me looking at their food choices at school and now that she’s mobile and can go buy her own junk.

I’d also like to find a functional medicine provider in MN for us but it’s daunting whos for real or who’s a fake?  My extreme distrust of the main stream medical community as a result of the Vid and my father dying of a massive heart attach after being told he was Soooo Healthy has made it difficult to trust anyone.

Thanks Lisa

2. Weight Loss While On Hyperthyroid Medication [26:26]

Douglas says:

Hi Robb, I am a 56 yr old male recently diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. My doctor has placed me on methimazole 2.5 mg and my numbers look great. The problem is that since being on the medication my weight has gone from 215 to 240 and I am 6’2″ tall. I have read many articles stating that it is hard if not impossible to lose weight while on Methimazole. My PA states it is not the medication, but my thyroid that is piling on the pounds. Do you have any recommendations on what I can do start losing weight? I loved your cleared hot podcast and I look forward to hearing from you. Have a great day.

3. Trouble sleeping with delaying breakfast or eating low carb [29:55]

Flannery says:

Hi,

I’m curious to hear your thoughts on why I have trouble sleeping if I don’t eat first thing in the morning or if I decrease the carbs in my diet.

I’m often not hungry in the morning, but if I skip breakfast or move my first meal to more than about an hour from when I wake up (usually between 6:30 -7:30) I will have significant trouble falling/staying asleep that night. The same thing happens when I shift my diet to include more fat and less carbohydrate as my primary fuel source. I’m a fairly competent food tracker, so I believe I am keeping my calories and protein the same as I make these changes. I’ve also tried (per your inspiration) increasing my salt intake by about 2g sodium/day (above just salting food to taste) when I delay my first meal or decrease carbs, but it has not improved my sleep.

I don’t have a huge need to delay breakfast or shift my diet, but some days higher fat/lower carb just sounds better and I’d like to be able to be more flexible with my diet without losing sleep.

I’d love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

Flannery

Background:

-I’m a 33 y.o. active woman (I have a pretty physical job as a farmer and work out 3-4x weekly either rock climbing or barbell strength training).

-I’m fairly lean with a body comp I’m happy with (5 ‘8” and 125lbs).

-I don’t think I’m under-eating calories or protein. When I track I seem to maintain on about 2000-2500 kcal and I love protein, typically averaging about 110-140g/daily mostly from meat and greek yogurt. Usually my diet breaks down to about 25% protein, 45% carbs, 30% fat.

-I’ve been eating my own version of paleo/W.A.Price-ish for about 10 years (I include rice and dairy, I don’t eat nuts and seeds.)

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Transcript:

Download transcript here (PDF)

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

https://www.virtahealth.com/blog/remembering-dr-sarah-hallberg

Fundraiser: https://www.gofundme.com/f/dr-sarahs-legacy-t2-reversal

Podcast Questions:

Kombucha – Synergy Brand With NO ADDED Sugar [7:24]
Barry says:

I’m making my way through your Wired to Eat book, and have started the 30 day reset plan.  What’s your advice on consuming 1 bottle of this kombucha per day with no added sugar but 15-20 grams of carbs per bottle from various fruit juices?  Thanks!

Paleo and Dementia Prevention [10:39]
Rebecca says:

Hi Robb. I am a long time fan and we did actually meet at the Keto Conference in Long Beach in 2019. I have a question and hoping you can shine some of your light – which I trust immensely as a healthcare provider. I have been doing more research on dementia prevention and the data is very skewed towards the Mediterranean Diet – which increases whole grains and limits fats and proteins. As someone who believes in Paleo (and keto for certain conditions), what has your research guided you towards for nutritional prevention of dementia?

I look forward to your response!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31996078/

This looks at using mct oil….this might be the easier one to tackle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHVDMcJn2YE

Hypercarnivore Don Matesz Claims We Should Stop Adding Salt [14:48]
Borge says:

Chose a grabbing subject line there, didn’t I?

Since you are the “salt/electrolyte guy” (you are obviously so much more than that), I just wanted to share this article with you:

https://www.fullrangestrength.com/salt-promotes-atherosclerosis.html

Don is the author of two books, The Hypercarnivore and more recently Meats & Sweets. Yes, same as with Carnivore Aurelius and Paul Saladino, he’s been swayed to add fruits and roots to his carnivore/keto approach.

But more recently he started posting about his discoveries about sodium and that we should stop adding sodium to our foods, as it will imbalance the potassium:sodium ratio.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe it’s not important on a carb-based diet, but on a low-carb/keto/carnivore diet where insulin is low it is more important?

The research he refers to is all from carb-based diets.

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/thoughts-on-farewell-to-paleo-post/3932

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

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The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

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News topic du jour:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/danger-close-with-jack-carr/id1557814875?i=1000554213885

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/daniel-schmachtenberger-towards-a-radical-cultural/id942777522?i=1000552112616

Podcast Questions:

1. Fermented Beet Juice? [25:44]

Joe says:

Robb,

Been a huge fan forever!!! In my quest to play super dad into my 40’s I have taken to eating a lot of fermented veggies.  For a ton of reasons including flavor, taste, texture and convenience I like to make my own mixes in glass jars.  Lately I have fallen into a beet and green cabbage mix.  I was wondering if the fermented beet/kraut juice packed the same blood flow benefits through the nitrate mechanism claimed by beet supplements?

BTW its as really simple and fun process.  Get a jar.  Shred the cabbage and beets with whatever is handy.  Sprinkle in salt.  Pound the mix into a jar after it sits about 30 minutes.  Let time do its thing.  I like a 3 week sit.  If you want it “kruatier” wait longer!  As it sits as long as the mix is below the brine things should turn out pleasant!

I also do a kimche style kraut that is bananas!

Looking forward to your response and thanks for all you do!

Joe

[Effect of the fermentation process on levels of nitrates and nitrites in selected vegetables]
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1308742/

2. Genetic Test for Stroke or Neurological Disease? [28:58]

Chad says:

Quick question- is there genetic test to indicate if stroke or other neurological disease (white brain matter disease) are more likely in certain people.  If someone has a family history of strokes, what can you do for wellness to reduce or prevent a stroke.

Chad

Genetic test reveals risk of atrial fibrillation, stroke

https://www.fulgentgenetics.com/Parkinson-Alzheimer-Dementia

3. Salt and high blood pressure [35:05]

Scott says:

Hey Robb and Nicki:  Love the Podcast. I’m a longtime Healthy Rebellion / Paleo Solution listener going back to the early days. My wife and I own Hammock Coast CrossFit and we are big fans of LMNT and use it frequently especially in the heat of the summer here on the South Carolina coast (Pawleys Island). (My wife’s favorite is the chocolate flavor over frozen berries and chocolate Muscle Milk for a deaert EVERY night !)

Got an electrolyte question for you though.  Doctor Rick Johnson was recently on Peter Attia’s “The Drive” podcast.  They discussed how fructose drives metabolic disease.  Layered in there he says salt can be a really bad player in this too drive up blood pressure. I know there is nuance here but it’s beyond my level. We recommend LMNT and electrolytes to our athletes some of which may have metabolic disease and therefore hypertension. Should we be more careful about recommending this?Would love you perspective.

Thanks and keep up the Salty Talk!

Scott Stephenson

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-peter-attia-drive/id1400828889?i=1000550288580

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help 1 million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to the Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning: when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Robb: Welcome back friends, neighbors, loved ones.

Nicki: Welcome to another episode of the Healthy Rebellion Radio. It’s officially spring.

Robb: It is officially spring.

Nicki: And today actually we had some amazing on this morning which was luxurious.

Robb: It was pretty nice and it was also, I had a great day at jujitsu and-

Nicki: You were indoors.

Robb: But I was indoors. And if my greatest complaint today is that I had to be indoors on a sunny day in Montana doing jujitsu with people that I care about, then my travails are not too bad.

Nicki: Life is good. Life is good. Yeah.

Robb: This was definitely one of those days where I’m like, “Man, I wish we had a palapa outside to do some jujitsu outside.”

Nicki: Do you even need a palapa?

Robb: Well, you just need something. You don’t want like direct sun on you most of the time and stuff like that.

Nicki: Right, right. You just need outdoor mats that I guess wouldn’t get ruined in all weather scenario.

Robb: Something like that.

Nicki: Something like that.

Robb: Yep.

Nicki: Yep. Let’s see here. What else do we want to share? We are in the middle, as you all know of our internal strength model program from Sarah and Grayson of Basis Health & Performance New York. So that has been going quite well. Lots of people are feeling things in their bodies, in their toes, in their feet, in their hips, in their shoulders that they haven’t felt before in a good way. So lots of good stuff going on in that course inside the Healthy Rebellion community.

Nicki: And then we are only a few short weight weeks away from our next Rebel Reset. So our spring 2022 Rebel Reset will kick off on Friday, April 15th. That’s our kickoff call. Then we’ll do a week of seven day carb testing for those that want to optionally participate in that. And then following that will be day one of the 30 day Rebel Reset. So excited for that. Always a good time. The t-shirts from the January one just came out. We did a new design this year, and I don’t know if our podcast listeners know the t-shirt thing, it’s something that is earnable, is that a word, earnable?

Robb: Well, basing things around merit these days is dodgy, but yes, it is earnable. Yes.

Nicki: Well, okay. Well that’s your-

Robb: That’s a horse of a different whatever.

Nicki: I don’t think we want to go there, but yes, we do have a little carrot that we put out in front of all the folks that join the Resets. And if folks complete a handful of things that we clearly lay out at the beginning, then they are eligible to get one of our 30 day Rebel Reset t-shirts and the January ones have a new design from our 2021 ones. And so 2022 t-shirts are… People have just gotten theirs from the January reset.

Robb: I’d say all of our shirts have been pretty cool, but this January one was-

Nicki: People like it.

Nicki: I had a big grin when I got it. You feel awesome.

Nicki: The design looks really cool and they’re soft and cozy. So anyway, we will be doing a spring t-shirt as well. Just throwing that out there. Okay, so I think that’s all on the housekeeping topics. I know for our news topic, we wanted to talk about a podcast episode. You listened to the full thing. I kind of joined you part way through. So I didn’t get the full episode. I know we ended our last episode of the Healthy Rebellion Radio in sort of a downer mood.

Robb: Yeah. And it’s interesting because we were talking a bit about the potential loss of the dollar reserve currency.

Nicki: Reserve currency.

Robb: And a number of people, I was actually pretty tickled with this. A number of people wrote or pinged me in various ways to comment about that. One was like, “Hey, I’d never even thought about this. This has never been on my radar.” A few folks pushed back on the idea that the US could lose reserve currency status, basically that we are still the cleanest dirty shirt and the cleanest dirty shirt by a staggering degree. And so the potentiality of the dollar losing reserve for currency status was low according to some of these folks. And this podcast Danger Close with Jack Carr and he had on a demographer and Peter Zeihan.

Nicki: Geopolitical strategist is his title I think.

Robb: There you go. I think I first listed into him on a podcast about a year ago exactly. And it was on The Pump Podcast. So he definitely travels in these kind of finance and where finance bleeds over into politics and stuff like that. And he looks at so much of the way that the old is laying out from demography, like how many young people do you have? How many old people do you have? How many people, people do you have? And just kind of goes forward from there and apparently has made some very prescient predictions. He actually, in a 2016 book that he wrote, suggested that Russia would invade Ukraine this year.

Nicki: In 2022.

Robb: In 2022. And laid out a remarkable, apparently this guy is in real hot demand because a number of the things that he’s laid out, I wouldn’t say he’s new to this scene, but he needed some time for the things that he suggested might be happening to happen and a bunch of that shit’s happening and it’s happening at a pretty good clip. And he has a really interesting take on the world.

Robb: One of the reasons why, or maybe be the primary reason why Russia is invading Ukraine in addition to like the NATO stuff and trying to get Ukraine into NATO and some pesky things around that, but fundamentally the Russian people are on a population decline and falling off a cliff type population decline. China is similar. A lot of the world is similar.

Robb: A lot of Europe is similar. And some people would cheer that because they’re like, “Oh, the world has too many people.” And maybe that’s true, maybe it’s not, but for sure he who does not live, does not pay taxes. And so it can create a lot of demographic problems later. And the show that I listened to last year, he talked a lot about China and that China wouldn’t really take on this like quote superpower status the way that many people suggest, because they’re facing this super gnarly demographic bulge.

Nicki: Because of their one child policy.

Robb: Because their one child law policy is now catching up with them. And there’s just no way to get out ahead of that. They’re going to have a massive aged population and a too small younger population to just work, to just do the things that need to be done.

Nicki: Didn’t he say that Chinese population would be like 50% less-

Robb: By 2050.

Nicki: By 2050, yeah.

Robb: Holy shit. Yeah. We have links to that show in the show notes. It’s a very interesting topic. And I think at this point, our main purview is health and getting a million people out of the sick care system and all that stuff, but at this point, because of our networked world, like everything influences health and although he was more optimistic in many regards compared to say where we were with regards to loss of dollar reserve currency status and whatnot. At the end of this show with Jack Carr, Jack asked him if there’s anything that Peter is really concerned about. And he became very somber and he essentially said that a billion people are going to starve to death over the next few years because of supply chain issues, because of these disruptions in fertilizer production, and just on and on and on to staying after thing after thing.

Robb: And that’s a pretty big deal. So it was interesting in that it was very optimistic from a United States perspective. Although it’d be really interesting to get his take on the rise of totalitarianism, like okay, maybe we maintain reserve currency status, but we have a social credit score. And if we sneeze out of tune, then we can’t go buy groceries and whatnot. It’d be really interesting to get his take on that stuff.

Robb: But it was a somber feel to his predictions around the food thing. So, again, I just think it would be a valuable thing to listen to. He looks at things in a very different way and part of the reason why I like folks like Brett and Heather and why I liked early, early on people like Art Devaney and even Loren Cordain is that people who have a good grasp of the material at hand, they are trying to articulate to people, they can create models, they can share what those models are and make predictive incursions into our lives based off of these models and the predictions that they make. And I think that’s really valuable. It’s something that’s real and is true and there might be some important takeaways from what this guy has to say.

Nicki: For sure. And he’s written several books, but his fourth book, his newest book is coming out in June. And the title is The End of the World is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization. So even the title has an optimistic ring to it.

Robb: Yeah. And that’s an interesting point because, and we’ve talked about this a little bit on the show, Nicki and I talk a lot at home when we are talking to each other, which is most of the time-

Nicki: We do that?

Robb: We do, and I have this sense that… It’s kind of weird, like on the one hand, if we don’t nuke ourselves, if we don’t end up in some sort of totalitarian cul-de-sac and whatnot, I think the world is going to be very different in that things are going to decentralize. I’ve made commentary that I think the United States is too goddamn big.

Robb: It’s just the sensibilities of the coastal folks are so out of step with the people in the flyover states that it’s just hard to imagine how that whole thing continues to work and function because it’s not really working and functioning right now. In some ways it would be good if there was some sort of amicable separation such that we still liked each other enough to have mutual trade and protection assurances and stuff like that and don’t let it devolve to a point where we just absolutely hate each other. But decentralization seems to be this really key thing, and it’s going to change a ton of things. It could be really good. It could put more of our food sovereignty and our health sovereignty back in our control.

Nicki: Local community-

Robb: Our local community control.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: There could be some really interesting experiments and opportunities there. There could be massive dislocation and changes along the way. I am not a fan of the concept of socialism, but I’ve oftentimes quipped that I would almost rather just be in Australia or New Zealand versus in the United States, as we thrash around.

Nicki: Not during COVID.

Robb: It’s like, do you want to be there during the transition, or do you want to be there when cake gets baked? And it’s kind of like, okay, you’ve got a social credit score and they’ve got you by the short hairs, but it’s like a society just completely coming unhinged at the roots is a whole other thing. And I know I’m just like off the weeds now.

Nicki: It reminds me of a different podcast we listened to a couple weeks ago, the one, it was like, it’s not a podcast we listen to regularly. We just were shared the episode and Daniel Schmachtenberger was the guest and he talked about there being like, was it three potential outcomes of all of this, one like an AI powered kind of tyrannical authoritarianism and, or a like massive decentralized chaos or we need this like cultural revolution where…

Robb: We find our higher selves.

Nicki: We find our higher selves and we are able to go above and beyond all of this infighting and othering and tribalism that is just tearing us apart. And you want to hope that we have it in us to do that, but sometimes it’s hard. You see stuff online and it’s hard to believe that we could do that.

Robb: I think it’s preposterous. We should definitely work towards that. The folks who have the… If anything, I think it could provide a softer landing on the backside, assuming that we end up… So this is an interesting thing too, and I’m glad you mentioned that. There’s just been multiple people coming at this from very different directions, and they basically are painting a picture of either a largely globally centralized, tyrannical, governmental entity, maybe it’s not the whole globe, but I don’t see China in Russia playing along with Europe and the United States, but anyway, you’ve got this centralized, tyrannical social credit score type model, or you have this just borderline insane decentralization, like all the jokes about libertarians, it’s like go to Zimbabwe or whatever for libertarian, because there’s literally no law or whatever. There’s jokes around that.

Robb: So any way, I just think it’s interesting that a lot of smart people are seeing similar things afoot. And to the degree that I think this whole healthy rebellion concept has some merit and some value, I think it’s in making us aware individually about the need for our health and welfare and security, and really a powerful need to build community in IRL, in real life. The online connection is great. The online piece is phenomenal for getting resources and information oftentimes in topics that we’re just not subject matter experts and that’s fantastic. But then at the end of the day, either way that this moves forward, whether it’s decentralized chaos or centralized authoritarianism, it’s going to be local communities that really soften those transitions and define what type of world we have on the back end.

Nicki: We’ll link to that other show too because I do think it was-

Robb: The Schmachtenberger.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: It was good.

Nicki: I didn’t care for the host. Like he was a little bit-

Robb: That host was pretty annoying.

Nicki: … annoying. But Daniel spoke most of the time. And if you aren’t familiar with him, he has been on many, many podcasts, but most notably Joe Rogan with Tristan Harris, Tristan being one of the guys featured in, and I don’t know if he had a hand in producing it, but the social dilemma movie. And so, yeah, we’ll link to that episode as well.

Nicki: One really interesting thing that he talked about in there is how we have the technology to be able to do some really fascinating things with regards to elections and who we have representing us as city, states, country.

Nicki: Why do we elect one person to represent us on a whole host of topics, which that individual is in no way an expert across all of those domains when you could foreseeably have this person who’s an expert in energy. We want him making decisions or her making decisions on things related to energy. Do we want to do more nuclear? What do we want to do with energy and then the other person education, et cetera. We don’t need one representative making these decisions or having a vote and representing us across like-

Robb: Every decision and every topic.

Nicki: … all of these disciplines that they have. There’s no way they can be an expert or even informed well enough to do that well.

Robb: It’s really brilliant stuff and it’s more brilliant than term limits and rejiggering the United States Constitution a little bit so that maybe you have like a one six year term for a president, the presidential election run up lasts a month and it’s all publicly funded. There’s a bunch of stuff that we could do that would fix things, term limits as a minimum. And we’re so incredibly unlikely to do it. And this is the interesting thing is that even the folks that are in power right now, they’ve got to have some sense that there’s an expiration date on what we are going through here. And it should, even though say like the Nancy Pelosi’s, the Mitch McConnell’s, these people who are literally-

Nicki: The octogenarians.

Robb: … literally dinosaurs.

Nicki: I saw a picture of Nancy Pelosi who looked like she was like 16 in like a ball gown standing next to JFK.

Robb: JFK. Yeah. Which tells you how long she’s been in this scene. And on the one hand you could say, well, that’s a long life of public service. And when we look at the way that this country was founded, it wasn’t supposed to be that way. It was supposed to be like, shit, it’s my turn to be in this absolute clusterfuck. Okay. I’ll do it because somebody’s got to, and for the love of God, I want to go back to my farm or my business-

Nicki: Well that George Washington.

Robb: Exactly.

Nicki: He did not want to be the president. All he wanted to do was farm. And he did it out of service to his country because his countrymen were asking him to do it.

Robb: Right. And so-

Nicki: So instead of having career politicians, have people who are experts in a domain that do some period of service and then go back to their domain. Anyway.

Robb: And all this, the Schmachtenberger piece made the case that we have the technology and interestingly blockchain could be a part of all this stuff where even our governance is decentralized, where it’s not necessarily House of Representative as we know it now. We could elect people, okay, we have an energy sector and an education sector and healthcare and then we could elect people more specific to these granular needs and actually have some scientists involved with determining is nuclear energy a good idea. Are we all in on wind and solar and whatnot?

Nicki: And I know you’re like, oh, it’s never going to happen because we’re just in successful of like tribalism and otherism. But if you just are of the opinion it’s never going to happen, then no shit, it’s never going to happen. So I think we need to change our… The more people that are aware that this is a possibility, the more people can then spread the message and people might not even know what other alternative to our current fucked up reality exists. But if there’s a glimpse of something that could be better and they actually know what to push for and what to champion, then there’s actually a chance.

Robb: It’s true. And again, and I don’t know, well, I don’t know so many things, but just simply getting to term limits in the United States would be amazing. Some term limits and some ability, which the term limits alone would I think block a lot of the capture that has occurred between academia and politics and also industry and politics. Yeah. But it’s good stuff. And I think that-

Nicki: But Hey, then we’ve got that good old stakeholder capitalism that good old Klaus Schwab is bringing to the world.

Robb: And there you go. I think all of this stuff is important for people to put a few CPU cycles too. I’ve always been interested in some of this politics stuff and markets and everything, and I’ve always had a feeling that the chickens were going to come home to roost on this stuff. I just honestly thought I would be planted before it actually started coming to be. And it looks like all this shit’s going to really play out over the course of my lifetime fortunately, or unfortunately.

Robb: And again, most people come here or have gravitated here for specifically health related stuff, that’s great and I’m very honored for that and I take that seriously, but there’s no part of your health that isn’t going to be politically controlled and mandated at this point. The decisions that… It’d be a significant impact on your health if we end up in a nuclear war with Russia, even if it’s a limited exchange.

Nicki: It’s a significant impact on our health if we can’t grow enough food to feed our communities.

Robb: Yeah. And these are the topics that are starting to pop up. And I don’t think that we’re goofy in discussing it when we look at the way that the disaster of COVID has been handled in just a… Yeah, yeah. I’m thinking like 50, but so many things we were told it was a conspiracy theory and then it ended up being absolutely true in like a full court press on the cover up and whatnot. And this is going to be the fight with all of this stuff. Climate change is still going to be this major driver of not wanting to do smart things with food.

Robb: Interestingly, one of the big things that we should be doing right now if we are potentially facing shortages of fertilizers, we should have as many sheep, goats, and cows grazing as we can on grass. This virtually free thing and we’re not going to do that and we’re not going to do that for a host of reasons. And it may end up having some really catastrophic impacts on everybody. But at a minimum, getting more people to think about and talk about this stuff creates the opportunity to move forward.

Nicki: Absolutely. Okay. We done there?

Robb: Better be or we really are going to be down to six listeners, so, yeah.

Nicki: Okay. All right. Don’t scroll too far. All right. The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company LMNT. If you feel run down and need a little pick me up, don’t reach for the caffeine, reach for LMNT. Electrolytes, particularly sodium, might be just the thing you need to help you motor through your day. If you feel like you’re tired or dragging, give LMNT a try. It’s a natural energy booster with no caffeine, no sugar, and they taste pretty darn good. And I also have some amazing news. I was told that grapefruit salt is on the horizon. It’s making another appearance this year in the not so distant future. I’m not going to give any dates right now, but I will say that it’s not too far out.

Robb: And it absolutely is going to be a limited time offer again. People thought that we were fucking around last time, “Oh, you’ll bring it back.” And no.

Nicki: It is limited time. We are producing more than we did the first go around because we know that it was a very popular flavor-

Robb: But once it’s gone, it’s gone.

Nicki: But once it’s gone, it’s gone. But we will let you all know as we get closer to the release date on that. And I do think that value bundle subscribers will get first dibs or they’ll get early access. I was told they will get early access compared to the general public. So those of you that are subscribed on the value bundle, extra perk for you. Anyway, grab your LMNT electrolytes at drinklmnt.com/R-O-B-B.

Robb: Cool.

Nicki: Cool. You ready for questions?

Robb: Let’s do it.

Nicki: Our first one is from Joe on fermented beet juice. Robb, I’ve been a huge fan forever. In my quest to play super dad into my 40s, I have taken to eating a lot of fermented veggies for a ton of reasons, including flavor, taste, texture and convenience. I like to make my own mixes in glass jars. Lately, I have fallen into a beet and green cabbage mix. I was wonder the fermented beet/kraut juice packed the same blood flow benefits through the nitrate mechanism claimed by beet supplements. By the way, it is really a simple and fun process. Get a jar, shred the cabbage and beets with whatever is handy, sprinkle and salt, pound the mix into a jar after it sits about 30 minutes, let time do its thing. I like a three week sit. If you want it krautier , wait longer. As it sits as long as the mix is below the brine, things should turn out pleasant. I also do a kimchi style kraut that is bananas. Looking forward to your response and thanks for all you do.

Robb: Yeah, I really wasn’t sure what the story was on this because I remember there was some question around goitrogens, goiter causing substances in cruciferous vegetables like cabbage and stuff like that. And I thought that was minimized with fermentation, but Chris Masterjohn set me straight on that and apparently it’s made worse. So goitrogenic foods can be made worse when they’re fermented. And this is just like any type of preparation, there’s pluses and minuses. When we cook food, generally it makes it more digestible. And fermentation is kind of a method of cooking. More digestible though can also mean that some things are relatively destroyed where other things are more enhanced. Interestingly, I did find a paper, the effective fermentation process on levels of nitrates and nitrites in selective vegetables, which the funny thing about that is the thing that gives you the benefit in vegetables are nitrates and nitrites, which are the same things in say-

Nicki: They’re going to kill you in salami.

Robb: … salami and all that stuff. And this is where looking at cell culture as a completely informative process is kind of a waste of time occasionally because these are the same constituents that provide benefit in theory from different vegetables, beets being particularly high. The long and short of this is that in things like cabbage, the nitrates and nitrites, which help to produce the nitric oxide and the vasodilation benefits are reduced to about 50 to 70%. In the case of beets, they’re reduced about 90%. So they’re dramatically reduced. I still think you’re going to get some benefits. I think a shorter fermentation is probably going to have a lesser impact, but clearly those nitrates and nitrites are being metabolized in some way because they are not in existence any longer at the end of the, or greatly reduced amounts at the end.

Nicki: Okay. We’ll link to that paper in the show notes, Joe, so if you want to check that out. Our next question is from Chad. He wants to know if there’s a genetic test for stroke or neurological disease. Quick question, is there a genetic test to indicate a stroke or other neurological disease? White brain matter disease are more likely in certain people. If someone has a family history of strokes, what can you do for wellness, or excuse me, what can you do for wellness to reduce or prevent a stroke?

Robb: So, pretty short question but there’s a lot going one on there. So on the stroke side, the main thing that I found with regards to genetic testing is that there’s a strong relationship between atrial fibrillation and stroke. So we also need to remember that there’s different types of strokes. There’s thrombic strokes in which the vessel walls burst and there’s damage to the brain from that. And then there’s occlusive strokes, a little bit more similar to a classic heart attack where an artery gets blocked. And so there’s that stuff. And I’m sure that there’s different genetic predisposers, we have a question coming up next about high blood pressure. High blood pressure definitely is one of these stroke batties-

Nicki: One of these markers.

Robb: Yeah. One of these things that you, which is one of the things to modify. I’m trying to think of how to tackle this. There is much better depth or much better understanding of genetic markers related to Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and dementia and there is an outfit fullgenetics.com. I don’t know how good this testing is. 23 and Me does some degree of screening and you have to sign this thing basically saying I’m okay with finding out whether or not I have higher genetic likelihood of developing Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, dementia, because clearly that can be kind of a disturbing and upsetting thing to discover, mainly relates to APOE4 genotypes is the big chunk of that.

Robb: Although there’s like 37 different things or 37 different genes that have been linked into some degree of susceptibility around neurodegenerative disease. So the things that you can do to improve your odds of keeping your marbles till you croak and whatnot, normal glycemic load, healthy blood pressure, and healthy from an ancestral perspective, not the norm that’s walking through the doors of medical clinics, low inflammation, moderate stress, enough stress to keep you engaged, physical activities, circadian biology. All the shit that we all talk about. This is one of the things that I find a little bit both perplexing and funny is the things that are good for gut health are good for brain health. The things that are good for brain health are good for heart health. It’s almost never a trade off in this regard.

Nicki: Right. Because evolutionary speaking, why would there be something that was great for your brain that gave you a heart attack? The whole point is to try to keep you alive.

Robb: One thing that’s maybe a push pull in that story is this topic of APOE4 genotype and say like ketogenic diets. And there’s a individual in the ancestral health space that is super negative on ketogenic diets and actually has misrepresented ketogenic diets in a variety of ways like had a report about why ketogenic diets were bad. And in the report cited a child who had died as related to a ketogenic diet, but the child had been on a ketogenic diet. And I think I mentioned this in a podcast a while back, but I want to start mentioning it more. The child had been on a ketogenic diet, got off the ketogenic diet, was on a ladder and then fell off the ladder and died. And the child had been on a ketogenic diet for epilepsy. But somehow this individual who has a PhD in the appropriate biomedical background cherry picked this thing and then presented it as if the ketogenic diet was the cause of death.

Robb: And part of what this person and other folks like this, and I’ll grant that there’s some concern around this, but these folks are really, really concerned about ketogenic diets for APOE4 genotypes because APOE4 genotypes have both an enhanced cardiovascular disease risk, but also a neurodegenerative potentiality there.

Robb: So that’s a situation where it’s like we could make a pretty good case that a ketogenic diet might be quite beneficial for mitigating neurodegenerative disease potential, but then we might be doing a little bit of a trade off on cardiovascular disease potential. There was a study recently though that really showed that lower carb diets in general, also ketogenic diets fare really well for the APOE4 genotype. Again, I don’t think everybody is going to do great on that all the time. I think something like a modified Atkins with a low glycemic load, and then maybe the addition of some MCT oil could be a fantastic way to manage that. But by and large, the things that foster health generally foster health at each one of these like suborgan systems. So that, he had the question about can you screen for stroke versus the neurodegenerative diseases? And also, what can you do about it?

Nicki: Try to make yourself as healthy as possible, just take steps in that direction, regardless of where your starting point is, start doing what you can to lower the inflammation in your body, lower your blood pressure if it’s higher than what it should be or what you want it to be, move your body, get sunlight.

Robb: All that stuff. Yep.

Nicki: All that good stuff.

Nicki: Okay. Final question this week is from Scott on salt and high blood pressure. Hey, Robb and Nicki, love the podcast. I’m a longtime Healthy Rebellion/paleo solution listener going back to the early days. My wife and I own Hammock Coast CrossFit, and we are big fans of LMNT and use it frequently, especially in the heat of the summer here on the South Carolina coast. My wife’s favorite is the chocolate flavor over frozen berries and chocolate muscle milk for a dessert every night. Sounds yummy. Got an electrolyte question for you though. Dr. Rick Johnson was recently on Peter Attia’s The Drive podcast. They discuss how fructose drives metabolic disease. Layered in there, he says salt can be a really bad player in this to drive up blood pressure. I know there is nuance here, but it’s beyond my level. We recommend LMNT and electrolytes to our athletes, some of which may have metabolic disease and therefore hypertension. Should we be more careful about recommending this? Would love your perspective. Thanks and keep up the salty talk.

Robb: Yeah. So we have long made the recommendation that if an individual is already hypertensive, they probably shouldn’t supplement generally with something like LMNT. Now that said, if the individual is out exercising in the heat and they’re becoming hypovolemic and hyponatremic, they’re getting dizzy and super high heart rate because they have low blood volume currently, then you need to address that, which adding in some amount of electrolytes and water is going to be a smart thing.

Robb: So it’s funny because you could have an individual who is generally hypertensive and the vast majority of hypertensive issues are related to metabolic syndrome. It is one of the primary characteristics of metabolic syndrome and hyper insulinemia, not everybody with metabolic syndrome and elevated chronically elevated insulin levels have high blood pressure, but a remarkable number of folks with metabolic issues also have high blood pressure.

Robb: It’s also worth mentioning that there are folks out there who have, as per their doctors recommendations, eaten a low sodium diet, and they have hypertension from inadequate sodium levels because this is a stress and it increases renin and angiotensin and catecholamine release is elevated. So it’s a massive stress. And that stress is trying to goose the body to hang onto more sodium. These people, their hypertension resolves when you give them more sodium. So this is another one of these things where there is quite a lot of nuance on this. The, what’s his, Rick Johnson was that-

Nicki: The guest on Peter Attia’s, yeah.

Robb: It’s really interesting material. And I think it’s important in many ways, but it’s also, it seems to be almost exclusively lab animal based, and then epidemiology based. There’s very little human, direct human data that’s attached to it. And in his discussion of the whole topic, he makes the point that folks are consuming these large amounts of sodium amidst the process or amidst consuming highly processed, hyper palatable foods, and which tend to make us overeat and all these types of problems.

Robb: So the best understanding that I have of all this story is, and I just did a talk which we’re going to be releasing here pretty soon, sodium, does it deserve a second shake? And we kind of dig into this a bit, is that for the vast majority of people, somewhere around three and a half to five grams per day is a reasonable low end on the sodium intake. And it may be an upper bound too if the individual’s not particularly active, fairly sedentary. Athletes need more, possibly double that amount of sodium. And we also need potassium and magnesium. Those are critical factors in making this whole thing work. Low carb folks, fasting folks need more sodium.

Nicki: Well, I’m reading his thing and obviously he owns gym and he is working with people that are there to get in shape and potentially lose weight if they have weight to lose. And a lot of people who do keto or low carb in the beginning, the extra sodium is the one thing that gets them through that keto period. So even though they might not be as metabolically healthy as they should, during that window in particular, many people just drop the ball on keto all together when they feel so crappy. And having that extra sodium is the one thing that allows them to continue on and actually do it long term.

Robb: Yeah. And a little bit of when I unpack in this talk, which we’ll put out up in the next week or so, but sodium restricted diets, even like zero sodium diets virtually, they will drop systolic and diastolic blood pressure three to five points total. It’s really pretty uni impressive. In some populations under some circumstance, you get a greater shift. In some populations, some individuals, if they consume a decent amount of sodium, they will get a really significant increase in blood pressure too, the sodium sensitive hyper responders. But again, the bulk of those people, that issue is primarily driven by metabolic disease, by hyperinsulinemia and all the… The interesting thing about what happens mechanistically with elevated blood pressure from hyperinsulinemia is that it stressful, so adrenaline and cortisol are released.

Robb: It stimulates the sympathetic nervous system so you’re in a fight or flight kind of mode. You are retaining sodium at a higher clip. You have an elevated heart rate. Your vascular bed is constricted already because you’re in a fight or… It’s like eight different mechanisms that drive all this stuff up. Versus, if you’re metabolically healthy and you consume excess sodium, you will get a transient blip in blood pressure and then your kidneys just kind of sort it out and it’s not a big deal. So I’m sure as we go along, and it’s interesting because we seem to be in a renaissance of reevaluating sodium. The Huberman Lab just had a phenomenal piece on sodium and looking at the reality that sodium restricted diets don’t really do that much for bringing blood pressure down. And the flip side of this is great studies looking at weight loss plus low carb diet, you get about a 1.6 to a 1.8 point decrease per kilogram of weight lost on a low carb diet.

Robb: I think you could probably add similar with just weight loss in general, but I think it’s a little bit more pronounced on a low carb diet. But as somebody who has 20 pounds to lose, that could be a 10 point shift in their blood pressure steps, which could be massive. And this is the stuff that we see people going from like a 140 over 80 to like a 128 over 70 or something like that, which is huge. And is the difference between every single heartbeat causing damage to the kidneys or not? The acceptable normal guidelines for blood pressure are such that many people are experiencing low grade kidney damage, every goddamn beat of their heart.

Robb: And simply putting people on beta blockers and LASIK and stuff like that isn’t fixing it. The folks who have blood pressure, and again, I talk about this in this talk, people with hypertension who are managed pharmaceutically don’t really live any longer than… They definitely live shorter lives than people who are normatensive. So it’s not really fixing the problem all that well. Whereas we do know that addressing metabolic issues does fix that problem. So I think I’ve kind of spun out here. Rick Johnson’s stuff is, again, really interesting. It’s honestly kind of frustrating because I think it presents an overly simplified view of this topic and we’ve kind of played around with the low salt thing. We’ve danced this dance before. When I was a kid was when the low salt thing started becoming really a big deal.

Nicki: My grandma was on low salt, she couldn’t have any salt.

Robb: Yeah. And now looking back, we have all this better data and it’s pretty clear that it doesn’t do what the label claim suggests. And there are certainly situations, like if an individual is just starting to, hopefully the individual starting to exercise, starting to modify their diet and their hypertensive, right in the beginning, they probably don’t need the supplement with sodium and electrolytes. But as they become metabolically healthy, as they diaries and lose both water and sodium, they’re going to hit this point where going to feel like garbage, their performance is going to kind of suck and that’s where you’re going to want to start putting in some sodium, either in the form of food or something like LMNT or like a home brew or something like that. So, Scott, I don’t know if I fully answered that. We undoubtedly will be revisiting this in the future because it’s definitely a topic de jour that will need to be poked and prodded from many an angle.

Nicki: Sounds good. That was our third and final question this week. Thank you all for listening. Robb, looks like the sun is poking out slightly.

Robb: It is.

Nicki: We have time to get a little in your eyes before it sets.

Robb: I doubt it. Because I have other shit to do too, but we’ll see.

Nicki: Thank you all for listening. Be sure to check out our show sponsor LMNT. You can go to drinklmnt.com/robb. That’s drinklmnt.com/R-O-B-B. Hope you all have a fabulous weekend and we’ll next week.

Robb: Bye everybody.

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

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News topic du jour:

Intracellular Reverse Transcription of Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 In Vitro in Human Liver Cell Line

https://www.biron.com/en/news/health-a-to-z/do-mrna-vaccines-against-covid-19-change-our-dna/

Podcast Questions:

1. Long Haul Covid [19:17]

Robert says:

Any ideas on treatment strategies for long haul covid. Having daily bouts of fatigue 1 month out as well as muscle aches and brain fog, in addition you can’t workout as it makes things worse. I’m carnivores mostly at this time. I’m 70years old 6 ft tall was 202lbs a month ago down to 186lbs now. Thanks very much!!

2. Balancing Blood Sugar During Pregnancy [23:56]

Lindsey says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

I’ve learned so much from both of you! I’m 39, 34 weeks pregnant (3rd child) and having blood sugar issues for the first time.

A bit of background before pregnancy #3 (I can’t help but think all of this may be relevant!): Just before pregnancy, I was at my highest weight at 190 but beginning to lose weight. I have primarily eaten a paleo diet (meat, veggies, no grains, no dairy, my only sugars were occasionally from honey, dates, maple syrup and a very occasional glass of wine) since 2016 with the exception of a short run of stressful family events happening in late 2018, including moving, when our lifestyle sort of took a backseat and wine and fast food intake went up, which is when I gained all of the weight. When I had trouble losing the weight, I saw a functional medicine doc fall 2019 and she did wonders through lab work and FODMAP to help me figure out my hormones were off- high estrogen, high cortisol- I had food intolerances (grains, dairy, sugar, alcohol, and coffee) and my B vitamins were low from malabsorption. Just as I was able to get things back under control, COVID happened. My family tried to maintain our re-established paleo lifestyle and exercised more (we also wondered why this wasn’t being shared all over media?!) even through moving again.

So, just as I’m beginning to lose weight in 2021, I find out I’m pregnant (yea!). I have felt the absolute best this pregnancy- working out, eating mostly paleo, but adding in whole wheat toast with avocado or nut butter in the morning after eating a protein to add calories (the bread didn’t seem to bother me), drinking LMNT on days I work out, etc. I had COVID in January and a stomach bug at the beginning of February and then realized I was dehydrated (drank more LMNT which helped me so much!). Within a week after that, I needed to take my 1-hour glucose test. I could feel I was bombing it the whole hour- my body didn’t know what to do with 50 grams of sugar. My blood glucose was 153 from that blood draw (the marker they use here in San Antonio is 140). My doctor wanted me to take the 3-hour glucose test, but I knew fasting and with even more sugar, I was doomed. I asked if I could skip ahead to glucose monitoring. I’m currently on day 3 (numbers below) and here is what I’m curious about: why/how can I have high fasting numbers but normal numbers through the day. Also, on day 3, what are some possible causes of the lower fasting number- was it the potassium in the LMNT? Just drinking more water? Taking out the bread? Not eating dessert like I did the day before (ha)? Are there any other changes y’all recommend?

day 1: fasting: 104; after breakfast: 108; after lunch: 113; after dinner: 112   notes: date night- ate 1/3 of a creme brulee

day 2: fasting 103; AB: 101; AL 102; AD 114  notes: tried apple cider vinegar in water (1tbsp:1/2 cup) before bed and today I drank LMNT after not drinking it for about 4 days (didn’t sound good/couldn’t get it down). Felt great after drinking it!

day 3: fasting: 88; AB: 114

Sorry this is incredibly long! Thanks for your help.

Joyfully, Lindsey

Book mentioned: Real Food For Pregnancy: lilynicholsrdn.com

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download transcript here (PDF)

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

News topic du jour:

Association between metabolic syndrome and 13 types of cancer in Catalonia: A matched case-control study

Podcast Questions:

1. Hyper palatable perception of normal whole foods
Alex says:
Really odd case here:
A good friend of mine has struggled with binge eating to the point of burping up food for years.  A few years ago at my urging he got tested for sibo(for a collection of other symptoms) and was..very positive.  Now 3 years on he’s way better but still doesn’t experience palate fatigue with whole food meals unless he restricts to pure carnivore with no seasoning but salt.  What could be going on here?

2. Tired Vegetarian
Amerra says:
Robb,
I am reaching out to you because I have no idea who I should talk to. I have endometriosis and just about 10 years ago read that going vegetarian would help my symptoms. I eased my way in and became a vegetarian. My symptoms did seem to alleviate and initially I felt great. I continued to be a vegetarian. I had two children (2016 & 2018). I understand that being a mom can be tiring however, I’m completely exhausted. I recently stumbled across someone talking about  the lion and the carnivore diets. They stated many of their health issues went into remission. I started researching fatigue and vegetarianism. There seems to be a connection. The problem is, I’ve been eating this way for so long that the idea of eating meat seriously grosses me out. This is not a moral issue for me or any other connection-just I’ve eaten this way so long. What do you recommend? Do you have any resources? Are there any health issues in addition to the obvious fatigue that I should get checked for? I would greatly appreciate anything you can share.

I did speak with a doctor about this and was evaluated for sleep apnea. The test came back with negative results. After this my doctor stopped following up. Also, to give further information, I am 36 years old. I have no other known health issues. I exercise frequently (although I have a broken back which prevents the type of intense exercise I used to do and love).

Thank you,

Amerra

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Rob gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Robb: I am Mr. Robb, your host. Welcome to Fantasy Podcast.

Nicki: Wrong show. Wrong show.

Robb: Yeah. Wrong century.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: You probably don’t even know what show-

Nicki: No, we already revealed this in a previous episode, where you had some sort of Fantasy Island-

Robb: Oh, okay. Ricardo Montalban-

Nicki: You did something and I didn’t-

Robb: … reference.

Nicki: … get it. Yeah. So, we-

Robb: Okay. But you remembered this one.

Nicki: But I remember because of that previous one. Okay.

Robb: That’s fair enough.

Nicki: Yes. This is Episode 102, ladies and gentlemen of The Healthy Rebellion Radio. We are coming to you from Kalispell, Montana on this fine, fine morning. We’ve got some sunshine, Robb and I have already had an epic battle about a song, this morning. So-

Robb: There’s no epic battle there. The only battle that existed was in your head. You insisted that it was this song.

Nicki: So I’m wearing a red-ish sweatshirt and red-ish, more like rust-ish, colored pants. And Robb, this morning, said… called me the Lady in Red. So, of course, I had to bust out my best “lady in red”. It was terrible. But, anyway-

Robb: It was even worse than that, because she’s been warming up. She’s been doing it all goddamn morning.

Nicki: I’ve been… So I somehow know all these lyrics, that I haven’t heard this song in decades. And I was like, “That has to be from a movie. Is it from Dirty Dancing?” And he’s-

Robb: No, you didn’t say from a movie, you said directly, “It’s part of Dirty Dancing,” like absolutely-

Nicki: No. I said, “It’s from a movie, and I think it’s Dirty Dancing.” But I couldn’t quite my finger on it. And, every time I was searching for it, I never heard of the Chris De Berg, or whatever, who’s the singer/songwriter. And I’m like, “I’ve never heard of this guy. How do I know this song?” But turns out I watched Pretty Woman more than a handful of times, as a kid, as a teenager. So that it where it came from.

Robb: Perfect.

Nicki: Yes, so. Now that, that’s settled…

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: But Robb was so frustrated because I wouldn’t stop singing it that he told me the next time that we’re doing jiu jitsu, and he has me inside control, he’s going to be singing it to me while I’m pinned down.

Robb: As the room blacks out for you.

Nicki: All right. On to the actual-

Robb: That’s more like spousal abuse. Right? Like calling you wife and… Or is that just shifting it to physical abuse now?

Nicki: Yeah. Well, jiu jitsu is physical abuse. But it’s consensual.

Robb: Is it really though? Are you really wanting to go there, or am I forcing you?

Nicki: No, I am not… Well, this is another thing. It just depends. Right? Like, am I going into that position because it’s the path of least resistance, and I’m going to try to get into a better position, or are you forcing me into that?

Robb: Are you talking about jiu jitsu, writ large, or-

Nicki: I’m talking about jiu jitsu. Yeah, we’re talking about jiu jitsu you know, like guard opening and stuff. Sometimes it’s better to open it on your own terms, then let somebody open it for you.

Robb: Very true.

Nicki: So I don’t know, half of our audience is like, “What the hell are they talking about? We don’t do jiu jitsu, and we don’t get this.”

Robb: And, “We don’t care.”

Nicki: So we will move on to our actual regularly scheduled programming. Okay. I have some news from inside the Healthy Rebellion community. As we mentioned last week, the Internal Strength Program from Sarah and Grayson Strange, of Basis Health and Performance, New York, started this past Monday. It is a meaty, meaty program. And we’re super excited. Some folks are already saying that their body feels better, different. It’s definitely a different stimulus. And it’s a lot. So I just wanted to, first of all, say that it’s available in there. So, even if you didn’t join us to start on Monday, you can join us now and start at your leisure.

Nicki: And I also want to say, like with learning anything new, there is usually some new terminology. There’s definitely a lot of new movements. So, for those of you thinking about embarking on this, just take slow. You don’t have to do all five days of the programming in order, on pace, with the way that this program is written for The Health Rebellion. If you’re busy, if you’ve got different stuff going on, you can, kind of, take it slow, learn the movements, and then move forward. But I do think that the investment in learning this style of training, and learning specifically these capsule and rotational muscle movements, is going to pay huge, huge dividends.

Robb: I’m just trying to think of my best greasy, used car salesman pitch on this. And it’s been tough, at various points, for me to… Sometimes, you just get fuckin’ busy. You just want to work out. And this is one of the benefits of CrossFit. You don’t have to think. You just show up. You’ve literally take your frontal lobe, stick it in a jar, and then just go. And you just spas out, and you have seizures everywhere-

Nicki: And you’re sweating, and you feel-

Robb: And you’re sweating-

Nicki: … and you feel great-

Robb: … and you feel pretty good.

Nicki: … and you’re sore the next day. So you got your dose. Yep.

Robb: Yeah. And sometimes that’s right. But then, when you reach this point where your back is constantly tweaked and your shoulder’s constantly tweaked, and your pool of movement starts whittling you know, the aperture starts closing-

Nicki: Or, if you’ve had any significant injuries to any parts of your body and/or you’re aging…

Robb: Or you live in the… Yeah, if you’re still aging, if you still have the benefit of aging, you’re not dead yet. There’s just all these reasons not to do it. And it’s honestly… You know, the reasons to do it are very much like a two-marshmallows-later kind of gig. It really is because-

Nicki: Do you want to explain what two marshmallows later means?

Robb: Well, why don’t you? So it’s this whole concept that looked at children who were… They were trying to figure out ways of determining success with kids. And they looked at IQ and testability and all this stuff. And what they found was the ability to delay gratification was a big gain. I know that there’s actually been some pushback on the total voracity of this thing but, without a doubt, the ability to delay gratification is a major factor in success in life, just on a lot of levels.

Nicki: So the kids that said, “No, I’ll wait and have two marshmallows later, instead of taking the one right now”-

Robb: Tended to be-

Nicki: …tended to do… Yeah.

Robb: … disproportionately successful, in a host of different things. And there’s a lot of delayed gratification elements to this process. The first time you do cars, and pails, and rails, and whatnot, you’re kind of like, “I don’t know if this is doing anything.” It takes a little bit. Sometimes you feel better immediately, like sometimes, after you go through a good hip process.

Nicki: I would say, with cars, you feel better immediately. The main thing is it’s time-consuming to learn. You have to watch the videos. You-

Robb: It’s time-consuming-

Nicki: … go through the process-

Robb: … to learn. And you’re not breathing hard, and you’re not sweating, and you don’t feel like you got your dose. So it requires a very different mindset, to just give peace a chance, brother. You know? And, goddammit, I just can’t recommend it enough. I’m really struggling with how to paint this thing.

Robb: When I’m laying on my deathbed, I’m going to look back, and there’s going to be ancestral eating. And then there’s going to be meditation and breath work, that you introduced me to, that was profoundly life-altering. And I can’t really do enough of it. And it, for minimal investment, provides this shocking return. And the return tends to get better and better the more you invest in it. It’s compound interest. And that is the same story with this stuff.

Robb: But, similar to the compound interest story, on day one, when you stick your money in the bank and, if it’s compounding daily, even if there’s a time where it’s not negative interest rates, like now, and we’re just going to fucking hell in a hand basket. But day one of compound interest is really underwhelming. But day 1,000 of compound interest starts getting kind of interesting. And it’s, “Oh, wow. Okay.” And I guess that’s the framework that you’ve got to have. So, if you can wrap your head around a compound interest mindset, or framework, with this stuff, there’s going to be some up-front investment. There’s going to be a little bit of frustration. It’s definitely going to take you out of your comfort zone-

Nicki: There’s going to be time involved to just, kind of, learn the movements because it’s all new. Learn the terminology, the lexicon.

Robb: Yeah. But I don’t want to… I guess I’ll pull this card-

Nicki: I’ll just say… Well, actually I just want to say like with everything going on in the world, like we’ve talked about this a bunch and we’ve you know… You can’t do enough with regards to resiliency, and especially with your physical self. Like your health is all you have. If your health is not where you want it to be, if you’ve got joint pain, or you’ve got issues, you want to address it. Now is a good time to address it. There’s a lot going on in the world. And the more you can make yourself harder to kill, and just more resilient, just the better off you’ll be.

Robb: Sure. Sure. Yep.

Nicki: Okay. Is that all we want to say on that?

Robb: And so just remind folks about, they get the Internal Strength Program as part of the Healthy Rebellion membership. We get, three times a year resets that are nutrition, sleep, movement, and community-oriented, very much leaning on they, they can, they get the internal strength program as part of the healthy rebellion membership. We get three times a year resets you know, that are, are nutrition, sleep movement and community oriented, very much leaning on Wired to Eat, but this strong community element. We have other resets, all throughout the year-

Nicki: Lots of special cooking classes-

Robb: Grip strength, cooking classes, cold showers-

Nicki: It’s interviews and different things. So lots going on in there, but this is the one that’s happening right now. Sarah and Grayson are phenomenal. We trust them with our programming, our bodies. They are our go-to-

Robb: Let me put it this way. We are in the very privileged position that we could go to anybody in the world to get our strength and conditioning mobility needs met. And Sarah and Grayson are the people that we go to. So read into that as you will.

Nicki: Yep. And we’re super thankful that they are doing this for our community. And I know a lot of our community members also work with them one-on-one, and have seen amazing results. So anyway, I’m super excited to see. I know people have already said that they’re feeling better. They’ve had limited ankle mobility and they’re noticing things are already changing, and we’re only halfway through the first week. So I’m really excited to see how people what changes-

Robb: What they take away from it.

Nicki: … find, at the end of the 30 days.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Yep. Okay, hubs, on to News Topics.

Robb: Yeah. So this is a matched case control study. The title is Association Between Metabolic Syndrome and 13 Types of Cancer in Catalonia. So it’s been quite some time that there’s been some degree of association between metabolic syndrome, obesity, which obesity doesn’t always track with metabolic syndrome. You can be you know, skinny-fat effectively, and be insulin-resistant and suffering metabolic syndrome. But by-and-large, obesity tracks with metabolic syndrome pretty tightly.

Robb: But there’s been a pretty good understanding that, in addition to a host of other issues, including neurological diseases like Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, dementia, cardiovascular disease, renal issues, non-alcoholic fatty liver, which is now the most common cause of liver transplant, I believe in the world or, at least, in the United States, on and on, on, there’s also this association with a known and growing pool of different types of cancers. So this is a study looking… It’s not a randomized control trial. We’re looking back at collected data. So we like to beat up on that stuff. And so maybe I’m being you know, selective in my highlighting this, and not highlighting other stuff.

Robb: But the basic takeaway from this piece was that, of the 13 common cancers that they looked at, 11 had remarkably high associations between prevalence and metabolic syndrome. And the more characteristics of metabolic syndrome that the individual expressed, which includes altered hip-to-waist ratio and dyslipidemia, altered blood sugar levels, hypertension… You know, there’s a couple other things that have come on. But the more of those that one has, the higher the likelihood of developing one or multiples of these, at least 11 types of, common cancers.

Robb: The additional part that I have to say about that is particularly within the ancestral health scene. There’s been a remarkable swath of folks who historically have advocated for Paleo type diets or maybe low-carb type diets and they’ve, for reasons that I can only speculate about, but that I think really relate to this virtue signaling Olympics kind of thing, have shifted their messaging to this kind of healthy-at-any-size story. And I think fat-shaming people is absolutely appalling, and ridiculous, and unacceptable. And that’s not what I’m talking about. But I also think that it is incredibly unethical for somebody who holds himself to be kind of a expert, or influencer in health and wellness, to lie to people and not point out the fact that they are higher risk for a host of different debilitating diseases and conditions that could shorten their life, damage their quality of life, at a minimum, making it harder, impossible to get life insurance, if somebody wanted to get life insurance, just as a complete aside.

Robb: So I’m going to start holding those folks more accountable on this stuff. I’ve been pretty hands-off, thus far. But I think that, as unpopular as it will be, and probably as not good as it will be for me, if we’re going to be in this scene. And I’m going to figure out a way to do this tactfully. But folks need to just be given the option.

Robb: Now, if people don’t want to change their diet and lifestyle, and they’re like, “I’m cool with what my risk profile is,” fine. That’s great. But lying to people about the severity of their situation, and the fact that they’re facing increased rates of cancer, diabetes, host of cardiovascular diseases, neuro-degenerative diseases, there’s just so much unethical crap there. And, particularly when you wrap this all up, and folks in this scene have just figured out a kind of a slipstream of virtue signaling to perpetuate their status. And, anyway. You got any thoughts, or should I just shut up, and call it good?

Nicki: Yeah. I mean, it’s obviously a sensitive topic. Like if you know somebody who… Let’s just say, if I was 300 pounds, and I knew that my weight was not healthy for me, you don’t want to be hearing it from every angle, especially if I’m really struggling with figuring out how to change it. Like, if I’ve tried every diet under the sun and, for whatever reason, I’m unable to stick to it because, maybe I live in a household where I have a husband who isn’t supportive of any changes, or I’ve got a job where I’ve got equally-overweight, or toxic, situations where… I don’t know. There’s a whole host of reasons-

Robb: Is that not the opportunity, though, for someone like these influencers, or what we do at The Health Rebellion, and be like, “That sucks. And we are here for you, and we’ll help you any”-

Nicki: Exactly. That’s what is needed. That is what is needed. And, as we know how powerful community is… Like, if your community is all people who eat similarly, and this could mean eating a typical standard American diet, and fast food, and lots of sugar, and refined oils, and all that kind of thing, it’s hard to be the different one. So, somehow, figuring out how to bring people into communities where the emphasis is on health, and how do I…

Robb: Support healthy change.

Nicki: … support healthy change, and get rid of the processed food, and go more to whole real foods. And the hard part is, I think, if you’re in a community where you’re not seeing any of the opportunity for health, it’s hard to pull yourself out. It’s hard to even know where to go. So-

Robb: But, again, I think that, that’s where these influencer types, it as-

Nicki: There’s a way that they could do… Yeah, I think, just by saying healthy-at-any-size, the message could be like, “Let’s find communities where we can make positive change. Not that there’s anything wrong with you, but we know that, if we can get you to a healthier… if we can get your blood lipids healthier, if we can remove some strain on your joints, everything improves.” Right?

Robb: If you want to.

Nicki: If you want to.

Robb: If you want to.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: Always, and if you want to, and I don’t want to belabor this too much. But it circles back around, ironically, to very much of what we’ve seen within the COVID experience. And the same people who are, now, lying to folks about this metabolic syndrome and the dangers that that poses for a host of different things, these are the same people that were fairly insistent that everybody should wear a mask. Everybody should get vaccinated, in this, kind of, uniform, one-size-fits-all thing. And there’s some irony, here, that, yet again, what I’m advocating for is choice, but honest goddamned choice.

Robb: And maybe our information will change. Maybe our information will update and we’ll be able to modify what we understand about this stuff. But, with our best understanding, right now, I think, it’s doing a remarkable disservice to lie to people about this stuff. And it’s incredibly unethical. And some pushback needs to happen with that.

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.

Robb: Okay.

Nicki: I would agree. All right. The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our Salty AF Electrolyte Company, LMNT. And I know we’ve mentioned our Give A Salt program many times, where you can nominate your everyday heroes, and LMNT will hydrate them. Well, there’s another category of everyday hero that I think is often overlooked. And that is the category of moms, in particular, breast-feeding moms. And I came across a review from one of our verified customers on the Drink LMNT website. This is from Kaylee. And her review says, “A must for breastfeeding. Besides absolutely loving LMNT before being pregnant and breastfeeding, I love it even more now. Not only do I look forward to drinking it each day, but I true believe this is one of the main reasons I have such a great supply. I mix some in a 36-ounce bottle and sip on it throughout the morning. My favorites are Watermelon, Citrus, Orange, and Raspberry, mixed with a whole lemon. Such an amazing product.”

Nicki: And I know we’ve chatted about this before. And there’s lots of folks in our community who have seen pretty dramatic milk supply increases when having an adequate intake of sodium. And LMNT, clearly, is one way to get that extra sodium. So, I think, if you know any moms, any soon-to-be mothers, breastfeeding moms who could use a little help in that department, I think they would be a wonderful person to nominate for our Give a Salt program.

Nicki: As someone who really struggled breastfeeding our first child, I just could not get her to latch, and ended up exclusively pumping for 11 months, and knowing just the stress and the anguish, and just the frustration when milk supply isn’t… when it starts dropping off and you’re trying every possible thing that every forum on breastfeeding and milk supply online says. If I had only known if I had boosted my salt intake that I could’ve had… I might’ve-

Robb: Markedly better-

Nicki: … had a markedly different outcome, then, that would’ve just been lifesaving. And let’s face it. Moms are here. So you can go to drinklmnt.com/giveasalt. That’s drink L-M-N-T dot com, slash, give a salt, and nominate your everyday hero. Okay. We’ve got two questions today, for this Episode 102, 102 with two questions.

Robb: Oh, my goodness.

Nicki: This first one is from Alex. He has a question about hyper palatable perception of normal whole foods. He says, “Really odd case here. Good friend of mine has struggled with binge eating to the point of burping up food for years. A few years ago, at my urging, he got tested for SIBO, and a collection of other symptoms, and was very positive. Now, three years on, he’s way better, but still doesn’t experience palate fatigue with whole food meals, unless he restricts to pure carnivore, with no seasoning but salt. What could be going on here?”

Robb: I really don’t know. I mean, we’ve had some interesting clients that seemingly had no, or very little, off switch, I think, habituating to years of big eating. Yeah, folks like people who played football. And I see this frequently in males and I’m kind of reading it. It does say he-

Nicki: He… Yeah. He’s-

Robb: Yeah. I see this more in males than females. And it’s like maybe they were an athlete at one time, rugby, football, American football, in particular. They eat a lot. They’re big. And you just kind of habituate to eating a shit ton of food. And then maybe you develop some health problems and you become more sedentary. But you just have this like back-of-your-head deal that you’re supposed to eat a lot. I think that, that’s a piece to it.

Robb: There could be a piece to this, too, that this person may just be a couple of standard deviations outside the norm, with regards to appetite control. Maybe this is where a little bit of genetic testing… I remember talking to Diana Rodgers about this, and some different folks who seemed to have really minimal appetite control. And they did, in fact, have some of the genes that are associated with low reward activity with regards to eating. So they don’t feel that satiety. There’s still that drive to eat. So, could be some genetic components. Could be some learned kind of psychosocial components to this. Might be a combination of both. But I don’t know precisely what’s going on here. But, clearly, this is where being flexible with what one is up to is handy because, if he’s experiencing significant health problems and some sort of carnivore-ish thing might provide some lane lines, then maybe this is something that he could stick really closely to for six months, and then start introducing a little more variety and see if that works. But yeah, that’s my best stab at that.

Nicki: Okay. And he says he doesn’t experience palate fatigue. But I’m wondering if… When I read palate fatigue, it’s sort of like you know, “Okay, I don’t want another bite of that thing.” But I’m wondering if he’s feeling full, like that satiety, or do you equate them as the same thing?

Robb: I’m reading it as satiety.

Nicki: Okay. You’re reading it as… Okay.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: All right. Our second question is from Amira. And she is a tired vegetarian. “Robb, I’m reaching out to you because I have no idea who I should talk to. I have endometriosis and, just about 10 years ago, read that going vegetarian would help my symptoms. I eased my way in and became a vegetarian. My symptoms did seem to alleviate and initially I felt great. I continued to be a vegetarian. I had two children, in 2016 and 2018. And I understand that being a mom can be tiring. However, I’m completely exhausted.

Nicki: “I recently stumbled across someone talking about the Lion and the Carnivore Diets. They stated many of their health issues went into remission. I started researching fatigue and vegetarianism, and there seems to be a connection. The problem is I’ve been eating this way for so long that the idea of eating meat seriously grosses me out. This is not a moral issue for me, or any other connection. Just I’ve eaten this way so long. What do you recommend? Do you have any resources? Are there any health issues, in addition to the obvious fatigue, that I should get checked for? I would greatly appreciate anything you can share.

Nicki: “I did speak with a doctor about this and was evaluated for sleep apnea. The test came back with negative results. After this, my doctor stopped following up. Also, to give further information, I’m 36 years old, no other known health issues. I exercise frequently, although I have a broken back, which prevents the type of intense exercise I used to do and love.”

Robb: Man, first, couple of things here. The associate… I guess, one thing is vegetarian can mean a lot of different things. It could mean dairy and fish, and some people even say chicken and-

Nicki: Or eggs.

Robb: … or eggs. And I think that, with the inclusion of, at least, sea food, I think you could probably make a good go of things with that. The term, vegetarian, is just super nebulous as to what it means. In general, folks who have had like meat aversion, in the past, usually like a soup or a stew, or something where the meat’s cut up very small, and it’s just, kind of, incidental to the meal as an easier way to get back into that, versus a steak.

Nicki: So the endometriosis part, too, like you’ve talked about this a lot. It’s typically a-

Robb: It’s an insulin-

Nicki: … a blood sugar-

Robb: Yeah, it’s an insulin-resistance deal. Some of the folks in the autoimmune scene look at it as autoimmune. And I think it certain has some autoimmune underpinnings. But, in my experience, I would put it like a 80/20, 90/10 insulin resistance/autoimmunity. I think the autoimmunity is secondary to the insulin resistance, which is another one of these ironic features, that the autoimmune Paleo scene is completely ideologically against carnivore and keto. And there’s all kinds of pseudo scientific crap that comes out of that scene around the stuff, when it’s a really powerful therapeutic tool for dealing with these issues, particularly, if you’re wanting to deal with an autoimmune issue that is driven by insulin resistance. And you should tackle the insulin resistance first, and then maybe you deal with the autoimmunity secondary to that. And this is definitely been what I’ve seen. One of the first medical interventions that is offered for endometriosis is Metformin, which is managing insulin resistance, in a manner of speaking. So, that seems like a really smart way to go with this.

Robb: And low carb isn’t the only way to deal with insulin resistance. And I can’t emphasize that enough. If somebody figures out a way of doing a low-fat, low-calorie diet, adequate protein, and they lose some body weight, again, then we can get back to enhanced insulin signaling, or improved in insulin signaling. Just in my experience, it seems to be easier to get people to tackle this from the lower carb side. We tend to have better satiety. We seem to see better blood glucose regulation which, again, ties into the satiety. And there needs to typically be some amount of body weight loss to an… And it doesn’t need to be massive. But a little shift in that direction is really, really powerful in restoring proper insulin sensitivity. And the insulin sensitivity ends up being this major driver in alleviating problems like endometriosis, which involves both liver dysfunction and also the effects on like the estrogen, progesterone, testosterone axes as it relates to insulin signaling.

Robb: So the cool thing about a lower carb diet is kind of a one-stop shop to get that. And, again, this could be with fish, or fish and eggs you know, and so-

Nicki: I would think that, starting with maybe some bone broth and, like Robb mentioned, soups. You can puree. And I guess it would depend-

Robb: That’s a great idea.

Nicki: Is it just like the sight of the meet? You know, a log of times, vegetarians, in the beginning, when they’re making the transition, the sight of raw meat, or handling raw meet, is sort off-putting. But, if you were able to cook it and then blend it in a blender, so it’s more like a puree… We had some friends visiting this last weekend. And they had a nine-month-old with them, and he’s eating solids. And Robb made him this… He took some soup bones, cooked them down, and added some carrots and green beans and pureed it all up. And he loved it. So maybe figuring out a way, so you’re not looking at it, if the appearance of it is what is the most off-putting for you.

Nicki: The other thing that occurs to me is, oftentimes, pictures of meat that we see conventionally, look… especially if you have this frame of mind that meat is bad or you’ve had that, for a while. When you’re vegetarian, you, kind of, think like, “Meat’s not for me. It’s not a food for me.” Is going the opposite direction with the meat food porn?

Nicki: There’s two gals on Instagram that I absolutely adore. One of them is Conscious Carnivore. And she was vegetarian. Or, actually, I think she may have been vegan and went carnivore, gosh, I think about three years ago. But she has some of the most amazing pictures of the animal foods that she eats. And I think she lives in either like Sweden, or somewhere in Europe. And she’ll occasionally post before-and-after pictures. She used to be kind of inflamed and puffy and didn’t feel good, when she was vegan. And now she just is the most glowing picture of health. And what she prepares for her food, and where she sources her food, and it’s just… I don’t know.

Robb: Pretty remarkable.

Nicki: I feel… It’s really remarkable. Her photographs are great. I think it might help pull you in to like, “Wow, this is vibrant. This is healing. This is healthy. And it might shift that, meat is gross… Help phase that out and take you into a place where you might view it differently. So her handle is Conscious Carnivore.

Nicki: Then, the other one is Slowdown Farmstead. So this is a friend of mine who’ve we talked about multiple times, on the podcast. And she was very, very sick with Lyme disease, and other things, and has found a way to heal herself with food. And she is almost 100% carnivore. And they raise and harvest the heir own food. And she has just an amazing gift of talking about the land, and her animals, and how it comes to be food that nourishes her and her family. And the pictures are gorgeous.

Nicki: Again, I think, just kind of, seeking out some of the beauty, and the wholesomeness of meet, some imagery around that might help shift away from the idea that meat is gross. I don’t know. Just-

Robb: No. I like it. I like. She asked a little bit around resources. You provided some great resources.

Nicki: Is there anything else she should get checked for?

Robb: I mean, you can do like a B-vitamin test, and iron, and zinc, and stuff like that. But I really feel like just getting in and doing… I think that seeking out some of these resources you mentioned. If you want to look into introduction of meat, like the puree-

Nicki: Does Diana still have her course?

Robb: Vegan recovery guide? I think so. Diana Rogers? Yeah, she might have-

Nicki: She put together with Robin… Robb helped her. And they put together a sort of a vegan, vegetarian recovery guide that they had right after the release of Sacred Cow, because kind of expected, or were hoping, that there would be people that wanted to shift back towards a meat-inclusive diet. So that could be helpful too. We will look for that. And, if we can find it, we’ll put a link in the show notes to that.

Robb: I’m not seeing it. But yeah, maybe we could… Maybe reaching out to-

Nicki: I think it had a different title. We’ll ask Diana. And, if that’s still available, we’ll link to that in the show notes. But that might be helpful, too. There were actually several former vegetarians and vegans who, I believe, were interviewed, or contributed to that, too. So that might be helpful.

Nicki: But yeah, I think starting with, maybe, some broth, some bone broth, and whatever type of animal product you find the least offensive, whether that’s fish, or shrimp, or chicken, whatever that is, and just slowly, even just small amounts, kind of, incorporating that back in.

Robb: Yeah. I like that.

Nicki: You like that? And I think that is it for today. Any final parting thoughts? Just want to say, love the people in your life. The world is a crazy place.

Robb: Yeah. There was a lot going on. Like we didn’t even really dig into the bigger Ukrainian/Russian War, and gas prices spiraling out of control. Some things, kind of, emerging around the vaccine manufacturers that seems to be very interesting, and also concerning. I just, the other… Well, it was yesterday. I kind of looked at Nicki, and I’m like, “I’m so fuckin’ overwhelmed.” Like, I want to help. I know you folks are spending your time listening to us. And I try to do some stuff on Substack and try to provide some value. But there’s so much shit coming at us so quickly. And I don’t even know how to stay on top of it, now. It’s almost like I need to be… You know, when people get into fitness, they specialize in one area.

Robb: Like Elizabeth told me that there’s a woman who is now specializing in public speaking for fitness professionals. It’s like, Fit to Speak. And it’s great. It’s brilliant. I checked out her stuff. It’s really cool stuff. But you got to find this niche. And I, kind of, feel like I need my doomsday niche. It’s like, “Okay, I’m only going to focus on energy sector disruption that’s going… or devaluation of the dollar in hyperinflation,” or something. You know, it’s like the 50 different things going on that are really concerning, and really important.

Robb: In some ways, we individually don’t have a ton of control over any of it. But I think it’s another one of those situations where, just being aware that there’s something going on and then you can make some backstop preparations, but also just being aware that something could happen is so powerful for resilience because you’re not surprised. It’s like, “Okay, I knew that the dollar could devalue, and there’s these implications,” or like gas could be at $10 a gallon. And what are the implications for that?

Robb: So yeah. I’m feeling it. I’m experiencing it. I don’t really entirely know what to do. And the one thing that I have taken away, what’s come back more and more and more interestingly, is that I need to focus locally. And, although I can and will continue to help in any way that I can in this kind of broader format, my sense is that all of us would be really smart to devote significant time and energy into shoring up our own resiliency, building connections within our communities, and helping our community resiliency. And then these online interactions are for a kick in the pants, a course correction, and for some information that we can implement to bring back to our local communities. And I really think that, that’s where we need to go.

Nicki: Okay. Well, thank you all for joining us for another episode of The Health Rebellion Radio. Be sure to check out our show sponsor, Drink LMNT, at drinklmnt.com/ R-O-B-B, slash Robb. Remember to nominate your moms for our Give a Salt Program, at drinklmnt.com/giveasalt. And I think that’s it. Hope you all have a fabulous weekend. If it’s sunny where you are, get out and get some-

Robb: Much-needed sun.

Nicki: … light on your skin, in your eyes, and have a fabulous weekend. And we’ll see you all next week.

Robb: Bye, everybody.

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News topic du jour:

On Friday, the CDC revised its covid risk formula.

With this single change, the pandemic abruptly eased going from 90% of the United States in High-Risk Red to less than 30%. pic.twitter.com/iwhlxYMPPZ

— Clarity (@covid_clarity) February 28, 2022

Podcast Questions:

1. Baby’s poor digestion [17:18]
Taylor says:
Hello, Nikki and Robb! I was hoping you may have some advice other than probiotics, since that seems to be the only advice I get on this topic and they don’t seem to help. I have a 9 month old baby with a very sensitive digestive system. We did everything “right” when it came to introducing good bacteria: natural home birth, no antibiotics, EBF until introducing solids. I have to cut dairy while breastfeeding because he has a CMPI. Since introducing solids, he is only able to handle meat, eggs, fish, and avacado. Anything else gives him extremely painful gas and he will be up all night screaming. Should I continue to try to introduce new foods or hold off until a certain period of time to let his gut heal/develop? His current daily food intake will look something like this: egg fried in lard, sausage patty, avacado, fish roe, ground beef, chicken thigh, over cooked white potato, and orange slices on the rind so he just gets the juice and no fiber. Thank you for any advice you may have!

2. Beef Liver [21:02
Chris says:
Robb,
I like to eat beef liver a couple times per week. In the states, I was able to find grass-fed sources, either locally or through US Wellness Meats. However, I recently moved to Okinawa, Japan with the military and haven’t found any local sources for grass-Fed or companies that will ship here. The grocery store carries frozen liver slices from Skylark meats, but they’re not grass-fed. For that matter, I can’t find any information on how Skylark raises their cattle, so presumably it’s a large commercial operation.
So, am I better off ordering some grass-fed beef liver capsules from a reputable company or do you think the liver from Skylark is okay, albeit suboptimal?

3. Essential Tremor [26:07]
Jenny says:
Hello, Robb and Nicki –
Thank you for providing truthful and unbiased information on health.  I love your podcast and the Healthy Rebellion group.
I am a healthy, 50 year old female.  I feel great but I have Essential Tremor.  I also have Celiac Disease.  Interestingly, I only know one other person with Celiac Disease, and he also has Essential Tremor.  Most of the time, my tremor does not bother me too much, and I have learned how to deal with it.  However, there are certain situations I am in once in a while where I would like to be able to reduce the tremor in my hands.  I have to do a pistol qualification course four times a year for my job, and I would love to reduce my tremor before the test.  I am drug tested for work and cannot risk using any CBD products, which is too bad because I have heard they can help with tremors.   I have a few questions for you.
1.) In your research regarding Essential Tremor, have you found a link between people with Celiac Disease also having Essential Tremor?
2.) Do you have any suggestions for reducing tremors before an event as described above?
3.) Is there any hope for completing healing Essential Tremor aka getting rid of it for good?
Thank you.
Jenny

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Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

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Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

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Show Notes:

Obesity can lower testosterone in teen boys, but weight-loss surgery may help
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2022/02/09/testosterone-obese-teen-boys/2111644425041/

Twitter thread on freedom to transact:
https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083?s=21

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/what-the-truckers-want

https://naturalselections.substack.com/p/milas-story

Vitamin D study: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0263069

Preventive Effects of Vitamin D on Seasonal Influenza A in Infants: A Multicenter, Randomized, Open, Controlled Clinical Trial

Baseline Serum Vitamin A and D Levels Determine Benefit of Oral Vitamin A&D Supplements to Humoral Immune Responses Following Pediatric Influenza Vaccination

National Terrorism Advisory System Bulletin: https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-february-07-2022

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

https://thefederalist.com/2022/02/01/our-failure-to-grapple-with-the-obesity-epidemic-pumps-diabetes-crisis-to-new-heights/

https://thefederalist.com/2022/01/28/he-lost-more-than-100-pounds-before-catching-covid-it-likely-saved-his-life/

James Lindsay screenshot Nicki mentioned: https://twitter.com/conceptualjames/status/1488694489686368263

Sponsor:

The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by our electrolyte company, LMNT.
Proper hydration is more than just drinking water. You need electrolytes too! Check out The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsor LMNT for grab-and-go electrolyte packets to keep you at your peak! They give you all the electrolytes want, none of the stuff you don’t. Click here to get your LMNT electrolytes

Transcript:

Download a copy of this transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: Welcome to the Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is an episode of Salty Talk, a deep dive into popular and relevant health and performance news pieces mixed with the occasional salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health and longevity.

Nicki: Healthy Rebellion Radio’s Salty Talk episodes are brought to you by Drink LMNT. The only electrolyte drink mix that’s salty enough to make a difference in how you look, feel, and perform. We co-founded this company to fill a void in the hydration space. We needed an electrolyte drink that actually met the sodium needs of active people, low carb, keto, and carnivore adherence without any of the sugar, colors and fillers found in popular commercial products.

Nicki: Health rebels, this is Salty Talk. And now the thing our attorney advises. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness change. And given that this is Salty Talk, you should expect the occasional expletive.

Robb: Welcome back, folks. Hopefully your world smells as good as mine does.

Nicki: I did not pass gas if that’s what y’all are thinking.

Robb: Kind of.

Nicki: I burped. I burped, and it was a fragrant one.

Robb: I think you had some … a taco meat scramble.

Nicki: I had leftover taco meat with eggs and salsa.

Robb: And I comment, I’m like that smelled exactly the way it smelled when you cooked it like 45 minutes ago, which I guess is kind of impressive and odd and horrifying all at once.

Nicki: Yeah. Everybody’s like … they’re, what’s the word? Not revulsed. Repulsed.

Robb: Repulsed?

Nicki: They’re repulsed and-

Robb: “Revulsed”?

Nicki: … we haven’t even gotten started yet. Anyway, welcome everybody back to another episode of the Healthier Rebellion Radio, this is a Salty Talk and we are going to just be talking about a couple of news pieces and just this crazy situation where the messaging from all of our media overlords and health experts is still completely devoid of anything to do with bettering your health.

Robb: There’s one solution. And one jab to rule them all, apparently.

Nicki: So anyway, before we jump into all of that, I just want to share a couple things from inside the Healthy Rebellion. As y’all know, we are in the middle of our 30 day rebel reset. This is sleep week, but I wanted to share a post from one of our members, Sydney. She posted this last week.

Nicki: “So every time Robb and Nikki would talk about people not getting enough protein on the podcast, I would be like, ‘Yeah, but not me. I get lots of protein.’ Four days in on measuring macros. No, I was not eating enough protein. It must be annoying for them to be right all the time.”

Nicki: So anyway, we hammer this all the time. I know all of you that listen to this podcast have heard us talk about protein probably to the point where you are rolling your eyes in your heads every time it comes up, but just like Sydney here, you might not be getting enough. And so if body composition is something that you are focused on and for whatever reason things aren’t budging, you might want to track your macros, at least the protein macro. And see what’s goin on.

Robb: We’ve found that just tracking protein for 95, 98% of people, it takes care of al the needs. And if it doesn’t, then you can step up the rest of what you need to do. But it’s pretty damn easy to have a food scale and just weigh and measure your protein and then just portion everything else out. What people find is that they get the carbs right, they get the fat pretty much right, although not always, which leads us into another update.

Nicki: And we got an update from, if you guys remember a couple episodes back, episode 99, we had a question from Dave who was struggling to meet protein requirements and he wrote back in and he said, “When they talked about this a couple weeks ago, they asked for an update, so here it is. I hadn’t realized how much fat I was eating, but cutting back has made all the difference. It’s now fairly easy to get plenty of protein without feeling over full. Sometimes I’m even a little hungry after meeting my protein goal. And after being stuck at the same weight for weeks, literally without even a single pound of variation day to day, in the last 10 days, I’ve dropped four pounds. I don’t expect it to continue at that rate, but clearly I’m on the right track. So thank you.”

Robb: So get enough protein. And then don’t overeat the fat along with the protein, which is kind of the holdover from our very effective, but oftentimes broken and misrepresented low carb and keto approaches and-

Nicki: Fat bombs, all the time.

Robb: All day, all the time, Dave Asprey buttered coffee, all that stuff can be good in the right context. But the thing is, is that the right context almost never happens with the vast majority of people. It’s kind of selling a hope and a dream. And as you know, giving acknowledgement to the people that I learned from, big props to Tyler and Luis at KetoGaines, this is following their lead and really watching them coach people through this stuff in a highly structured, but like day after day, just grinding away, getting the work done. This has been their message, make protein the focus, fat is optional, carbs are typically kind of limited in their approach. But there’s variations on that. But the main thing is get that protein. And don’t try to out compete protein with fat. Particularly if body composition is the goal.

Nicki: Okay, let’s jump into our sponsor ad. The Healthy Rebellion Radio and this Salty Talk episode is sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company LMNT. And I have a couple of rebel member messages that they posted inside the health rebellion this week that I felt were just kind of perfect for … They read like an ad, actually. So this first one is from Sarah. She says, “I’m fighting hard against FOMO on the chocolate mint LMNT. I have six boxes still unopened, maybe seven. I do not need more. I do not need more. I do not need more, but I want more.” So I thought that was just hilarious. And if you haven’t tried mint chocolate, or you are like Sarah and you have some FOMO around it, I believe we have about one week of-

Robb: Maybe at this point.

Nicki: Maybe by the time this episode comes out, maybe just a week or slightly shy of a week of inventory left. So you might want to get on it if mint chocolate is your thing. Another one from Maria, she says, “I really got to get more of my husband’s quotes on here, husband, ‘I put my phone in my mouth walking down the stairs because I was out of hands and it tasted like all the different kinds of LMNT mixed together.'” There are worse things your phone could taste like, I’m sure.

Robb: I can imagine so many worse things.

Nicki: Anyway, those were fun. As always folks, you can grab your LMNT at drinkLMNT.com. That’s drinkLMNT.com/ROBB. The value bundle is your best value for your buck. You can buy three box of your choice of flavors and get your fourth box free. Again, that’s drink L-M-N-T, LMNT.com/ROBB.

Robb: Excuse me. So we were noodling on what to do with today’s show. And I, although I’ve been mainly off of social media, there’s kind of a hangover from a couple of weeks ago where I had posted a Vinay Prasad piece that covered a lot of different things. And in the opening of his piece, he talked about the relative non-utility of mask wearing, and he’s done multiple pieces on this.

Robb: And again, for folks just as a reminder, Vinay Prasad is a practicing physician. He’s in the Bay Area. I believe he’s at Stanford, but don’t 100% quote me on that, but a pretty well respected guy. And I’m amazed that he hasn’t been canceled harder and more often because he’s really … It’s so funny. He’s said things that I agree with so I think that the guy is smart and balanced and everything. And isn’t that what we always do?

Robb: But he’s said things that I haven’t wanted to hear, but I ultimately have, I think been born out by this weird thing called fact and science, and then he says things that we’re both seeing the same congruence on this stuff. It’s so weird for me right now, because everybody speaks in such certitude that it’s … I’m trying to figure out how to sneak up on this stuff.

Robb: But anyway, so there was a multi-part piece that Vinay had released. And in the beginning, it was talking about earlier … an earlier couple of articles that he had written, where he really dug into the mask wearing and the efficacy around that.

Robb: And I did post this on Facebook, but usually I just pump and dump on this stuff. I never go back and look, but for whatever reason, I forget what it was. I don’t think it was around my birthday, but I looked back and God forbid that I looked back, it was generally pretty favorable, but there was one person. This person has a master’s degree, if I recall, in engineering and in computer science. So a math savvy science educated individual. And what the person’s said in response, so there was this long article, and it was just the few things in passing about masks. And this person with the computer science background said … he took the quote from Vinay, basically saying, “Masks are ineffective.” And then this person who, again, has good science and math background, like better than 99% of people on the planet.

Robb: And this person said, “There’s a study that shows that places that wear masks had lower transmission rates than places that don’t.” Didn’t cite the study didn’t … I mean, and it’s like, it’s another one of these things where it’s … there are all these crazy correlational things that exist, like release of Kevin Bacon movies relating to tanking of the economy-

Nicki: Shark attacks.

Robb: … and shark attacks.

Nicki: Something like that. Yeah.

Robb: All this stuff. And it’s like, okay, sure. I have no doubt that we could pull something like that together, and that’s probably something worth looking at, but the piece that Vinay is actually talking about is when these things, a gold standard randomized controlled trial, and it suggests that cloth masks do literally nothing, maybe worse than nothing, because people fart around with them. They fiddle with their face and they touch their face. And there’s all this fixation-

Nicki: Or they get shoved in your pocket or in, like I mentioned before, in your purse next to your phone, and most people’s phones have like, not LMNT mixed on them, but in germs.

Robb: Well, and we’ve been out and we’ve seen people take their masks and use it to wipe down a table and then put it back on. It’s just like, fuck. And this is masking writ large. And then there was the point around properly worn N95 masks may mitigate COVID transmission by about 30%, but again, you got to wear them exactly right. And you can’t pull them on, you can’t pull them off.

Nicki: This is where there’s a study to prove every point. And so unless you’re really trying to dig down and get what is the truth of the matter and you’re reading all of the sides and all of the studies, I’m sure that guy’s study the conclusion was that masks reduced transmission, but-

Robb: Well, that there were places that wore more masks-

Nicki: But how is this-

Robb: … and had less transmission potentially in-

Nicki: Exactly. What were all the factors in that study design? There’s so many variables in these things. And most people, you read the conclusion or the abstract or the sensational headline that is in the Washington Post or whatever, and end of story. And so any counter position just gets met with the other counter position, and you’re at a gridlock, you’re at this stalemate of, well, my study says this and well, my study says this and we’re fucked.

Robb: And to that end, I didn’t really get super involved in this exchange. It was on my personal Facebook deal. And I just kind of watched. There were a lot of people and they were actually kind in the way that they handled this, but they said, “Hey, I’d love to see that study.” And this person refused to produce it. One. And then they said, “Well, here are further analyses on this mass topic.” And so all of those went up. And then this person shifted gears and started saying, “Well, it’s not about the masks at all. It’s just that people don’t want to do anything. People are just refusing to do anything. And that’s overwhelming our hospitals and they’re jerks and horrible people.” And it just kind of went from there.

Robb: And so I did get pulled in on that. And I said, “I think people by and large are very willing to do different things and a whole host of things. I know that we’ve been willing to do a variety of things along the way.” We talked about at the very beginning of this whole thing when nobody knew what was going on. Nicki and I were out on a walk with the kids outside in Texas, because that’s where we were at the time. And we were fortunate to have that as an option. We had friends in Spain and New York and different places where they couldn’t even leave their homes for weeks or months on end. So we were really lucky and we basically had conversations around, hey, if I die, then here’s maybe a game plan. And if Nicki dies, here’s the game plan and-

Nicki: Yeah, we took it-

Robb: … we took it-

Nicki: … extremely seriously-

Robb: … super seriously-

Nicki: … in the beginning, as I think most everybody did, in the beginning.

Robb: Yeah. And then over the course of time, just watching things, the fear porn and the narrative around what we need to be doing to address all this stuff didn’t really match up with reality. And one of the main things that I kept noticing, and this goes all the way to when the Princess cruise ship had the folks on it that were, some were sick, some died. And it looked like all of them that got severely ill and all of them that died had significant comorbidities, sometimes three or four of them.

Robb: And as we’ve motored along, we’ve seen the median age of death, at least initially, and that maybe has changed a little bit over time. But initially the median age of death was 80 years old, which means half of the people that have died are over the age of 80 and, no, it doesn’t mean that it’s okay for old people to die, but they’re already past-

Nicki: Life expectancy.

Robb: … life expectancy for fuck’s sakes, and like any bad flu season is liable to go through that. And we had had in 2017, 2018 comparatively mild flu season. So there was the potential around a lot of “dry tinder being available” and all kinds of stuff around that. But what I pushed back on this person with was that our public health officials have said nothing about health, about getting metabolically healthy, about losing weight. And-

Nicki: Especially since fairly early on, it became clear that comorbidities were a factor in death, specifically obesity.

Robb: Right. Blood sugar-

Nicki: Blood sugar dysregulation-

Robb: … dysregulation. Blood pressure, all of that stuff.

Nicki: If blood sugar was out of control, that seemed to be sort of a marker that COVID was going to be a more difficult ride. Vitamin D, it wasn’t that maybe summer of 2020 when it started, when there were doctors that were saying all of my patients that are severely ill have like bottomed out vitamin D levels?

Robb: Well, and when we look at influenza, it’s exactly the same story. We see exactly the same thing. Early in this thing, again, didn’t necessarily mean that we were going to have the same kind of slam dunk here, but in that cost benefit deal, we know from a public health perspective that getting people topped off on vitamin D at a reasonable level, literally no downsides. Very, very difficult to overdose.

Robb: There is some misconception around the vitamin D fat soluble vitamin overdose story that is applicable to vitamin A, not vitamin D. Vitamin D has all kinds of feedback mechanisms to prevent an overabundance of vitamin D in our system. But it’s one of these … it’s almost free money, do it, lose some weight, whatever you do, paleo, vegan, low carb, high carb, whatever. Just get-

Nicki: Well, and the-

Robb: … metabolically healthy, exercise to the best of your ability, take some vitamin D.

Nicki: And amazingly, so even in the absence of COVID, we’re a fairly unhealthy, sick population. So, add COVID to it and we’re-

Robb: And we’re kind of a hot mess.

Nicki: And I’m speaking for America here. We’re a fucking hot mess with regards to our health. So doing these things like, messaging from our health agencies like, “Hey, this is the time to get in shape, do some exercise of whatever flavor that you can do given your current physical state, move your body and cut out the junk food. Take some simple steps. As a nation, we’ve got to lose some weight. We’ve got to get ourselves healthy.” In the absence of COVID, our medical system … you’ve done Salty Talk on this-

Robb: Multiple times.

Nicki: … I think a year or two ago, is already a …

Robb: It’s already stretched to the brain.

Nicki: So stretched because of metabolic health issues, and then add COVID to the mix. But I feel like it would have been such a rallying cry, such a unifying, like national, like we can do this, let’s get healthy, the ripple effect from that, just in families and in kids and society, from mental health to just physical health, to positive outlook, just, it would’ve been this amazing cultural transformation of health.

Robb: Well-

Nicki: And instead, we’ve got more division, more distrust of authority. MSM is wondering why people don’t … people listen to Joe Rogan over them. And it’s no wonder.

Robb: I don’t remember the guy’s name, but he’s a popular journalist. He said, “Maybe if we did our job better, then people would trust us more.”

Nicki: Well, he gets it.

Robb: And whatnot.

Nicki: Most of them don’t.

Robb: Most of them don’t. So again, just close our eyes for a minute and imagine a world in which Fauci at all said, “Hey, we’ve got these vaccines in the pipeline. We’re really optimistic about them, but we can’t be a one trick pony, we’re America. We’re more sophisticated than that. We’re more nuanced than that. We know without a doubt that these comorbidities around metabolic disease are crushing us anyway. Other than age, it is your greatest exposure to serious illness or death. We’ve got to get healthy, America, and here’s how we’re going to do it.”

Robb: Pick a diet, doesn’t matter which diet, we’ll give out diet books. The government will buy diet books from used bookstores, we’ll get health coaches. You can close your eyes and you can think about all the fear mongering, all the finger wagging, you get vaccinated, you bad dog, get vaccinated, and instead like, hey guys, you can do it, lose that weight, take a walk, which in the age of healthy at any size, kind of hard to say lose the weight because apparently you’re fat shaming people, but also maybe you’re saving their lives by encouraging them to get metabolically healthy, which is a whole other just …

Robb: When I start thinking about stuff like that, I’m just kind of like fuck it. I am literally going to turn everything off, turn completely inward and just forget it. But this isn’t a crazy world that we’re painting here. During World War II, there were all them we can do it, Rosie the Riveter, posters and stuff like that. And we had meatless Mondays and well, we’ve got to send food to the troops and we do this and we do that. And we rallied together and there was actually positivity around it.

Robb: There was positivity during an existential threat called World War II, where we rallied people together instead of sewing divisiveness and having a singular answer to the whole thing. But that isn’t what we got. And so I pushed back hard about this whole narrative that this person was pushing, because the vaccine only answered … I just became aware of this. It was April of 2021 that there was actually a CDC backed initiative to start looking at our pharmacopeia for drugs to be used to treat COVID. And there’s almost no work that’s been done in it and they’re not-

Nicki: And it’s like-

Robb: … looking at Ivermectin and-

Nicki: … why did we not do that-

Robb: Why did we not do that on day one?

Nicki: … month one when we didn’t have-

Robb: There should have been a multi pronged … should have been a multi pronged approach. And we talked about that ages ago, ages ago, and this is one of the things that was super suspicious to me. If this is an existential threat-

Nicki: Why are we not using every fucking tool that we can-

Robb: Turnover every stone.

Nicki: … can find?

Robb: And America should have led the way. We should have had the definitive studies on Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine and Fluvoxamine. And instead, it had to be done everywhere else. Right or wrong, we should have been investigating every one of these and we should have been leading the way. And the fact that we didn’t is suspicious as hell, just shockingly suspicious.

Nicki: And so to that guy, it’s not that people are unwilling to do things. People who are looking at what’s been recommended and are looking at this landscape and are looking what’s being pushed and what’s not being pushed, more importantly, what is being omitted from the conversation? It is suspicious.

Robb: It’s super suspicious.

Nicki: And then it’s like, well, you’re not going to just follow lockstep with something that doesn’t sniff right, something that doesn’t sit right in your gut, that’s something that doesn’t make sense.

Robb: Can I go to crazy town just a little bit? This is crazy town for at least some people, I think, most the five people left listening, this is all still pretty pedestrian stuff.

Nicki: All the crazy things from 2020 have turned out to be true. So I don’t know.

Robb: Turned out to be true.

Nicki: So, I don’t know what you’re going to say, but …

Robb: So our friend who has worked at a three letter organization with the government pinged us and was like, hey, you’re onto some interesting stuff here. And, here’s one of the challenges we’re going to face, trust in public health is nuked, it is gone. And all of this stuff, including Omicron, could have been staged out in such a way to nuke trust in public health, so that the really bad virus, when it comes through, people don’t actually do what they should do. When it is that 10%, 30% infection fatality rate, a civilization ender. And we have some push backs on that.

Nicki: I don’t know, my pushback on that is maybe initially there might be a little bit less like, huh, I don’t know, is this another … But people are smart enough to see.

Robb: When you start actually stacking bodies up in the street and-

Nicki: I think people are smart enough-

Robb: I get it, but it’s-

Nicki: … to see through it.

Robb: Yes, but it’s interesting, and this is where it starts feeling like an Inception movie where you’re how many layers deep and am I in the acid trip or the dream, or whatever. But the long and short is that there were huge opportunities to address health. And just from a messaging perspective, hey, we’ve got this vaccine. We really encourage you to do that. Here are the age groups that we feel are most appropriate. Here’s how we would triage it. And, oh, by the way, what are the … how can we help you get metabolically healthy? How do we make sure that you have vitamin D in access? I believe in India and Mexico, they were giving out zinc and vitamin D and vitamin C, developing countries are doing this, and it’s maybe not illegal here, but it’s verboten.

Nicki: There’s nothing proactive in that regard.

Robb: Yeah. There’s nothing proactive in that regard. So there’s an article here that kind of digs into this from the Federalist, Our Failure to Grapple with the Obesity Epidemic Pumps Diabetes Crisis to New Heights. And so I think that one is really worth reading. It’s something I’ve talked about for a long time. If folks have followed my work, I think it was 2012, Ancestral Health Symposium, maybe 2013 that I talked about the congressional budget office predictions from that, from actually around 2004, was where that study had been generated. And it was suggesting that by 2035, the US would be bankrupt from diabetes related costs. Like every nickel, dime and penny that we produced with GDP would be consumed-

Nicki: 2025?

Robb: 2035.

Nicki: 2035.

Robb: 2035. It’s only Al Gore that makes predictions that New York will be under water in-

Nicki: 12 years.

Robb: It was supposed to be 12 years ago that it was supposed to be under water, I think. But so that’s a thing to look at. So I threw out a bunch of this stuff to this person on my Facebook page. And they came back again. They’re like, “You’re dancing around the issue. People just don’t want to do what they should do,” which I said, “You’re saying that vaccine, everybody should get a vaccine. That is the one and only thing. Our public health officials are not on the line for talking about public health.” And I haven’t, to this point, not really gotten a response around that, but there’s another piece that, again, from the Federalist-

Nicki: Well, first of all, so as we were talking with regard to this first paper that you’re linking to here, the diabetes crisis is now significantly greater than it was-

Robb: Oh, this was a great-

Nicki: … in 2020, at the start of the pandemic.

Robb: This was a great piece too and I forgot about this. This guy very emphatically said, “You don’t know what you’re talking about here. You don’t know what you’re talking about. People haven’t gained weight during the pandemic.”

Nicki: That was where I was going with this.

Robb: And he said that.

Nicki: With certitude.

Robb: With absolute certitude. I’m like, “You’re fucking kidding me, right?” And I just posted about the COVID 15. And I think that was written like a year ago. So it’s now probably like the COVID 25. I’m like, “If you are this unaware or if your sociopolitical view is so constrained that you can’t even dig up information that people have gained significant amount of weight,” and people have, because of all these different things that have gone on, we’re just now starting to see this excess death stuff pop up, children missing mandatory childhood vaccinations. And there seemed to be some problems there.

Robb: People missing cancer screening, people who had a heart attack who didn’t get treatment, people missing-

Nicki: Because they were afraid to go to the …

Robb: Because they were afraid … either afraid to go-

Nicki: ER.

Robb: … or they couldn’t get in, because of the impact of all this stuff. And it becomes a circular thing where it’s like, well, if people would just get vaccinated then … well, but the vaccines aren’t sterilizing and they don’t prevent you from getting the disease.

Nicki: Don’t prevent you from transmitting the disease.

Robb: They may actually make the transmission worse. They may, in some populations, attenuate the total severity of the disease. But even that is a little bit up in the air, and it certainly is inappropriate the cost benefit. We were just looking at the number needed to treat to prevent one bad outcome in young men is massive. And then the amount of myocarditis by comparison that it produces, it’s like you’re literally burning down the village to save the tribe or something. Some terrible analogy with that.

Robb: So I came back to this person like, “So you’re really telling me that you’re unaware of all this weight gain that’s happened? And how should I take anything you are saying credibly? And all I’m saying is if you want a vaccine, by all means, get a vaccine. And let’s talk about who is the most risk stratified-“

Nicki: And even if you had the vaccine, still doing things to improve your metabolic health is important. And that message should be there.

Robb: Well, and here’s the funny thing, and we know this from influenza, RSV and a bunch of other vaccines, if you’re metabolically unhealthy, the vaccines don’t fucking work very well. They just don’t take, you don’t get a proper immune response. And so either way, and I’ve said this one a bunch of different times over the course of the last two years, whether you want to vaccinate or don’t want to vaccinate, being metabolically healthy stacks the deck in your favor, having adequate vitamin D stacks the deck in your favor, inadequate vitamin D means that vaccines don’t work as well. And again, this is well established.

Robb: It’s well established within the COVID literature. It’s well established within influenza literature and a host of other vaccines, because it is all predicated on the immune response. And if you don’t have proper vitamin D status, we have an inappropriate immune response. It’s not made up shit. People do all kinds of made up stuff, but I mean, this stuff is very well documented. I don’t want to say the science is settled, but this is well established stuff. It’s not outside-

Nicki: And more and more research is coming out that is aligned with that.

Robb: It continually aligns with that. So, thank you for reminding me about that. But then there’s another Federalist piece here, He Lost More Than 100 Pounds Before Catching COVID and it Likely Saved His Life. And this is just a story about a guy that early in the pandemic, he was very overweight and he realized that, oh, everybody’s going to get this ultimately. And he kind of did the cost benefit analysis of like, well, even if I … whether I get vaccinated or not, if I’m overweight, my risk is much greater. And so we took it upon himself to change his diet and started exercising and he lost 100 pounds and he still got pretty god damn sick. It’s an interesting story, but he almost certainly saved his life by doing that. The thing is though, is that it was just because he had his eyes open and kind of followed fringe recommendations. This wasn’t mainstream, this didn’t come from St. Fauci, the good, which-

Nicki: St. Fauci the good?

Robb: Of course, he couldn’t be anything else. He is science.

Nicki: I guess no saints are like saint so-and-so the bad.

Robb: I don’t know.

Nicki: My Catholic elementary school education is failing me.

Robb: That only happens a few times a day, babe. So don’t worry about that. I don’t know, anything else that we want to say on that? My point again is, I’ll make a quick point and then you can wrap up too. If there had been a cohesive story here, if there had been a diversified risk approach tackling public health, looking at our pharmacopeia of drugs to see if there’s anything that we could do there, really trying to risk stratify, like who really needs a vaccine and who can wait? And if there had been some nuance there, if there had been anything other than just-

Nicki: There would’ve been a helluva a lot more buy-in with everything.

Robb: Yes. And there’d be a lot more trust.

Nicki: And a lot more trust. And this ties into-

Robb: And ironically, I think a lot more people would’ve gotten vaccinated-

Nicki: Totally.

Robb: … for fuck’s sakes.

Nicki: 100%.

Robb: If they hadn’t-

Nicki: The mono message-

Robb: … forced us.

Nicki: The mono message and then the continuing to push, I think the instinct on behalf of a lot of people, especially when taking in the totality of everything we’ve just talked about is to dig in your heels. And we wanted to mention and just touch on quickly the Rogan, Spotify drama. And it ties in perfectly.

Nicki: Rogan is an inquisitive person who brings on a variety of guests and has conversations and is digging at the truth. He doesn’t have an agenda. And the reason why his platform is so huge and the reason why we have the mainstream media freaking out over him-

Robb: Can I back you up a little bit?

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robb: I think it’s going to be hard for a lot of people to believe that he doesn’t have “an agenda.” Joe’s agenda is that he’s legitimately curious and he’s not above sticking his finger in an ant nest and just kind of stirring it up to see what’ll happen as an experiment. In my opinion, I’ve spent a little bit of time with the guy and have chatted with him a fair amount, but that … everybody, so many people and we’re so polarized, people can’t conceive of person who doesn’t have an end goal. I don’t know that I would be above having an end goal. I would certainly have some type of an agenda. I would however, say that Joe certainly has beliefs. And I think that he would have end stages that he would like to see. But I think the most legitimate thing as his agenda is legitimate curiosity.

Nicki: 100%. And throughout the whole thing, he has talked about the importance of getting healthy and losing weight. So instead of a mono message from our big … and also, who are his corporate overlords? Spotify, and-

Robb: Which that’s in relation-

Nicki: … his advertisers. Those are relationships, versus all of these media outlets are owned by huge corporate entities that do have agendas, that are influenced by corporations like big pharma. And so, this is where I feel like people are … the reason why mainstream media is I think falling apart and scrambling is because it’s been this singular message. There’s been no nuance. There’s been no inquiry into anything. Everything has always been, this is settled. It’s not the lab leak. It came from nature. Every little thing along the way, there’s been a single answer with no room for questioning. And somebody like Joe, he’s asking questions.

Nicki: He’s just having a conversation and trying to dig in, he gets different people from the whole variety of spectrums, beliefs, politically and medically and whatnot. People like that. They don’t want to be forced fed something. We are adults. We want to think something, we want to be able to listen, think it through and come to our own conclusion. And the fact that that’s not okay in this current landscape and that people are putting so much pressure on Spotify and Rogan, it’s mind boggling.

Robb: Well, it’s suspicious, again. It’s like why-

Nicki: Well, then when you look at Neil Young, what was the tie? Blackstone owns his music-

Robb: Owns his music.

Nicki: … via some other third party. And so, that’s fishy.

Robb: And I have no doubt that Neil Young’s sociopolitical leanings are such that they are what they are, but Blackstone, how many other artists do these guys own? And they just kind of went through, “Hey, what are your thoughts on this?” “Oh, I think Joe Rogan’s a piece of shit for doing what he’s doing.” “Perfect. Here’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to create this drama and …”

Nicki: And-

Robb: And that’s great if Neil can’t conceive of being on a platform that is allowing someone else the ability to both articulate their position and let other people access it. But there’s just so much irony there.

Nicki: And this is going to tie into the Canadian convoy in Ottawa, too. Kind of going-

Robb: Back to that.

Nicki: … on a nice, little, nice, little journey here through all these topics. But the Washington Post just had some opinion piece that was, we need to talk about this toxic movement that’s happening in Canada.

Robb: This toxic freedom movement was the headline.

Nicki: Yeah. Toxic freedom movement, which is … Wow.

Robb: That was the headline-

Nicki: Freedom is toxic.

Robb: … we need to talk about this toxic freedom movement.

Nicki: And so people who are reading mainstream media outlets like the Washington Post and taking in the fact that there were like one or two people with a confederate flag and so clearly everybody there is a racist and a Nazi. Again, I don’t know. I feel like people see through this bullshit. We have so many Canadians inside the Healthy Rebellion, people that actually went to Ottawa on Saturday, people that live there.

Nicki: One woman is pregnant and she is from Serbia. Her parents fled Serbia and moved to Canada. And now all of this stuff is happening in Canada, which is just heartbreaking. And she went and talked to all of these, there were Serbian truck drivers that were sharing food and just the vibe and the positivity and other person was like, this is the most positive thing I’ve ever been to. There was not a single ounce of violence and people are really, truly there unifying together. It’s all colors, all religions, all … it’s a beautiful thing. And if people are actually looking at that like …

Robb: Let me throw something in there just really quick, and this will get us in trouble, but I’m at the don’t really care point. At least up till this point, what was the tagline out of the summer of 2019 or ’20? I’m a mainly peaceful protest? This has actually been 100% peaceful, so far. Now, bad actors could be there-

Nicki: I think as of this morning-

Robb: … infiltrators could get in there.

Nicki: … there maybe have been two arrests in all of Ottawa.

Robb: Oh, okay. But nothing’s getting burned down. People have not broken in as in attempt to solidify their freedom. They have not broken into Walmart’s and stolen every god damn thing out of there, which I still can’t figure out how that is liberating anybody, or illustrative of anything other than douche baggery. But, I don’t know. But that is not happening here.

Robb: And I, again, interesting comparing contrast, and what is the one thing that is being requested? It’s actually very interesting because it’s a very specific ask, whereas the ask that kind of came out of the aftermath of some of the George Floyd stuff, I’m still not entirely … defund the police? Okay, that worked great. Cities went to hell and now they’re walking all that back. There wasn’t actually a specific ask. There is a specific ask here, remove the vaccine mandate, make it optional. That’s it, that’s all that people are asking for. I don’t want this to be forced upon me. I don’t want my life-

Nicki: And it’s about-

Robb: … predicated on whether I-

Nicki: … far more than just the vaccines too. But they do have a specific ask.

Robb: That is the choke point, because-

Nicki: But they’re rallying around like, hey, this is Canada. Our government should work for us. The government should serve the people, not the other way around.

Robb: Well, and just as a side note around that, and most folks are probably aware of this, but maybe not. But one of the only surviving framers of the Canadian constitution is suing the government and making the case that they’re in violation of six different … it would be different bill of rights points. And so, we’ll see where that goes.

Robb: So a lot of people are aware of, I think the … seemingly the good intent here. There are people that are not though. We had some people that were like, my friends who were in such and such community think that these people are all racist. And so that’s all I’m going to believe. And that’s all I’m going to get into. Oh, what’s my point about that? Do I even want to make a point about that?

Nicki: We’re just massively divided, but the thing that’s happening there, and you can see on all of these different Instagram channels about the freedom convoy, the unity that is taking place. If you actually take the time to look, it’s bring tears to your eyes beautiful.

Robb: And here’s a funny thing, Bad-Gato had some great stuff. And so for all the kind of bougie, communist, socialist workers of the world unite, and he’s like, “They fucking united,” and they’re like, “No, not like this.”

Nicki: Oh, and that reminds me. I actually took a screenshot of something I read this morning and I’ll read it because it ties perfectly into that. So this is James Lindsay, he’s the author of Cynical Theories with another co-author and he tweeted this thing, cognitive dissonance. And it’s a screenshot from a Reddit thread, workers are uniting in solidarity against an authoritarian government, and the left is against it.

Nicki: “The trucker convoy is the closest thing to a working class uprising I’ve seen in my lifetime. I wasn’t around in the 60s, and yet the left is somehow against it. Isn’t this exactly the kind of thing the left should be supporting? Are there even any working class people on the left anymore? Why do they all seem to be Zoom tech workers or unemployed? Why is the actual working class overwhelming … Why is the actual working class overwhelmingly not on the left? It’s really unsettling to see actual working class unity taking direct action against fascist mandates and the left is taking the side of the fascists.”

Robb: There you go.

Nicki: It’s a crazy world we are living in.

Robb: Can you forward that to me?

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: And maybe we can get a link to that in the show notes too.

Nicki: Absolutely.

Robb: So as always, I’m not entirely sure if anything that we’re doing here ever does any good, but we’ve been getting a lot of emails from people just saying thank you. I have to say, following some people like the Bad-Gato and even Alex Berenson, although Alex is a little acerbic for me at times, a little over the top, but certainly dark horse, Jordan Peterson, which, I mean, these are all horrible reprehensible people that are just asking for freedom, that we continue to improve western liberal democracies, that we don’t burn it down with no viable option in hand is really like-

Nicki: That’s really what-

Robb: … the charter of these people.

Nicki: I mean, Brett Weinstein has made the case, fixing something that’s already in existence is a hell of a lot easier than burning something completely to the ground and trying to start from scratch.

Robb: And my vindictive self, part of me is kind of like, fuck it. Let’s just let it burn down, because it’s going to be more other people that are affected than me, but it’ll for sure affect me and it’ll affect-

Nicki: No, we’re all going to be affected.

Robb: We will all be affected.

Nicki: That would be a fucking terrible situation.

Robb: And both Heather and Brett had a piece talking about spite, and what spite is, is willing to take damage to yourself to make sure that damage is inflicted to someone else. And I’ve reached the spiteful stage of my life where I’m kind of like, I’ve been warning and begging and cajoling, hey, can we do this? Can we do that? And it’s like, no, man, your book didn’t cover every nuance of bipock farming. And so that means you’re a racist, sacred cow, which we got a bunch of stuff like that. And you just, you get several years of an onslaught of stuff like that. And you’re kind of like, fuck all of you guys, but that’s not everybody. It is still a vocal fringe-

Nicki: It’s actually a very small-

Robb: It’s a very small group. It is a small shit-headed group.

Nicki: In the words of Justin Trudeau, it’s a small fringe minority.

Robb: Is that while he is wearing blackface or not, or both?

Nicki: He wasn’t, but those words will come down-

Robb: Echo through history.

Nicki: … through history, for sure.

Robb: It is true. And that is part of what keeps me in the fight. And we do get some good feedback from folks. And I do honestly, like some days I’m kind of like, is doing this podcast doing any good? Should we just keep our head down and sell salt and call it a day? But, I do-

Nicki: How much value do you get from listening to Brett and Heather, from reading El Gato Malo and other people? It-

Robb: It’s probably some of the more enriching elements of my life.

Nicki: It helps when we’re going through this period of time as a country, as a global population, and I see it in some of the comments on Gato’s things, like you’ve got, or Eugyppius, you’ve got people all over the world in different states of lockdown and different states of mandate and these sort of-

Robb: It’s a lifeline.

Nicki: It’s a lifeline. And even people in the Healthier Rebellion have said as much. So I know that sometimes you get a little …

Robb: I just-

Nicki: You question whether or not we’re … is this helping? But I feel like we’ve seen enough and heard enough that it does. And also, we get value from other people. And so, some people get value from us.

Robb: Yeah, I’m sure. Well, I think some of that I think is good, healthy questionings. I’ve had two significant mentors who ended up being complete narcissist shit bags and terrible people. And so I try to keep a toe or two on the ground with that regard. I will say that the by and large, the stuff that I’ve followed and the stuff that I think about, I don’t want to have control over or dominion over anybody. I want to do my own thing and I want to see everybody else thrive and do well. I am-

Nicki: You would’ve never been Genghis Khan.

Robb: I would’ve never been Genghis Khan. I would’ve been a terrible conqueror. Until though, and I will say this, until you reach a point of frustration with people where you’re like, these people are too dumb to help themselves. I forget the period of the crusades where it was a kill them all, let God sort them out. And it didn’t matter if they were Christian or infidel or whatever. I could see where one could reach that stage of jadedness, and I hope to avoid that, but I don’t know.

Nicki: I feel like there are-

Robb: I should probably-