The Paleo DietÂ â Robb Wolf on Paleolithic nutrition, intermittent fasting, and fitness

Hair Loss and Sleep Issues, Eating Liver, Carnitine Argument | THRR061

Fri, 15 Jan 2021 09:00:37 GMT

Ketosis and Perimenopause; Eating Liver; Protein, Calories, and the Missing Link; Hair Loss and Sleep Issues on Keto; Carnitine and Red Meat Argument with a Doctor

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Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection

POWERPOINT

1. Ketosis and Perimenopause [21:47]

Tammy says:

I have been practicing a keto diet leaning toward carnivore for 3+ months. I’ve been struggling to stay in ketosis (daily blood testing), and have been unable to identify the reasons for my sometimes dramatic swings in glucose and ketone numbers. I do have “bad food decision” days, but the numbers don’t seem to correlate. I’m middle aged and believe I am perimenopausal. Could the hormone fluctuations be cause my ketosis struggles?

Side note: I’m working with a Naturopath to keep my nutrition focused.

Thank you for your time and information!

Tammy

2. Eating Liver [25:55]

Valérie says:

Hey Robb and Nicki!

First I have to say I am so glad to be part of THR. Thanks for all the work you do & content you provide. Here’s a bit of background info before I ask my questions: I I have been trying to incorporate more organs in my diet because with all the info out there, it seems like the way to go for optimal health. I also cannot tolerate many veggies (I eat mostly beef, fish, eggs, kimchi, beets, carrots, kefir, some sweet potatoes and honey on occasion) so I worry that I am not getting all the nutrients I need with such a limited array of food choices. I have added bone marrow (which I tolerate well) and liver. Liver, however, does not sit well with me: every time I eat it I feel sick afterwards (not necessarily nauseous, but just an overall feeling of being unwell) and it lasts a few hours. First question: what could be causing this? Second: Is liver all the hype it’s been touted out to be? Can I still reach optimal health without incorporating it into my diet.. what do you two suggest? Thanks a million!

3. Protein, Calories, and the Missing Link [31:23]

Lindsey:

Hi Nicki and Robb! Love the podcast and the resources on the website. Thanks for providing logical and fair information for people to tap into. Also, Robb–I love it when you use the term “noodling” and am trying to bring it into the everyday vocabulary of my college students (they don’t think it’s “cool” enough yet.)

Quick background info–37 year old female, 5’5″, 168lbs, around 34% BF, extremely familiar with Paleo and Keto (even did Paleo-Zone back when it was cool). Strength training 2-3 times a week, HIITs 1-2 times a week, walking every day. Saw Robb speak in Flagstaff, Arizona back in 2008, believe it or not.

About a year ago, I became desperate because I wasn’t losing fat despite my strict adherence to Paleo. I thought maybe a coach could help me figure out “the key” to whatever I was missing. I decided to grab a Layne Norton coach (low fat, high carb, high protein) who kept lowering my calories and upping my cardio, and wouldn’t allow strength training. Even he was surprised at my almost non-existent rate of loss. I ended the program at 1100 calories and about 5lbs lost….which was great, but horribly unsustainable. My body only began losing a tiny bit once I was at or below the 1200 calorie mark. I felt like poop. I’ve since gained that weight back and have been doing the Paleo/keto lifestyle. I feel better and stronger, but I am uncomfortable with the fat accumulation. I feel like I’m back at square one and none the better for it.

My question centers on fat loss and its relationship to protein and overall calories. You’ve both said that oftentimes the key to fat loss is protein intake (1g per pound of body weight). However, If my body only loses at very low calorie 1000-1200 a day, but I need to eat 150g of protein a day, that doesn’t leave much room for anything else. What am I missing here? Why is my body so hell-bent on keeping that body fat? I was told by the former coach that I may just need to suffer at low calorie/high protein until I reach my goals, but I don’t think it should be this difficult or I should have to run my body into the ground to fit into my jeans again. I’m not trying to be a swimsuit competitor, just want to be a bit leaner and stronger while seeing steady fat loss improvements. Don’t even care about the number on the scale.

Quick note–I’ve been out of that LN program for about 9 months. I haven’t been eating like an asshat and have tried several times to lose fat and keep my calories down, but all I seem to do is gain. I’m a wee bit frustrated because the fat used to fall off when I while eating Paleo between 25-35 years old. Thanks for your considerations!

4. Hair Loss and Sleep Issues on Keto [40:03]

Bre says:

Hi Robb and Nicki, I absolutely LOVE your podcast. I credit you both to literally changing my health and the health of my family. I found your podcast when I was in a very desperate health place. Through your advice and books, I have found healing, vitality, and freedom. Thank you so much! I pray you keep doing what you are doing for a very long time.

Some quick context before asking my two questions:

I am a 43 year old female. 5 foot 4, and 150 lbs. I am moderatley active – walk a few miles a day, weightlift a few times a week. But I do work at a desk all day as well.

I had thyroid cancer and a full thyroidectomy 10 years ago. I have taken synthroid and cytomel since. My endocrinologist aims to keep my TSH pretty suppressed to keep risk of returning cancer low, so he has kept me between a .1 – 1.0 for the last ten years.

Before finding the Keto/Carnivore diet a year ago, I felt like I was dying and not a single doctor could help me. Turns out, I was just a hormonal storm with insulin resistance/leptin resistance, etc. For the last year, I have strictly followed a clean Keto diet, mostly consisting of eggs, beef, ground turkey, bone broth, and greek yogurt with the occasional salad or some berries. My macros are consistently: 70 g protein, 50 g fat, 10 g carbs. (after a decade of eating around 1200 calories (non-keto), I have needed to keep my total calories at or around 900-1000 in order to lose. If I go any higher, I just don’t lose.

I am 5lbs away from hitting my 50lb weight loss goal! But most importantly, I feel amazing for the first time since having my thyroid out. My skin is great, my energy is off the charts, I no longer have GI issues, and my moods and cycles have stabilized. Overall, I feel like a million bucks (except for two little issues)

My questions are:

1) – my sleep sucks. I sleep super light, feel like I can never get into a deep sleep, and wake up several times a night, often not being able to fall back asleep. Up until going Keto, I had never suffered with sleep issues. I take NED’s sleep CBD, do blue light blocking glasses at night, no screen time, etc. I have a great bed and make my room pitch black (also use Blueblox’s sleep mask). No matter what I do, I just can’t sleep deep. I am desperate to sleep deep and through the night again, help!

2) – my hair is falling out at concerning speed. Also something I feel has been triggered by my diet. I take Perfect Keto’s Collagen, and I take Biotomizer’s magnesium, zinc, and vitamin b complex. Is there anything else I can add in to the supplement mix to help with this?

I should mention, because sleep and hair loss can be thryoid level issues, I did just get my levels checked. They are right where they have always been for the last few years (except free T3 was a little lower than normal).

Here’s my results from last week:

TSH: .2

Free T4: 1.16

Free T3: 2.75

Fasting Blood Sugar: 77

Can you help? Like I said, I am desperate to sleep again. Thank you!

Bre

5. Carnitine and Red Meat Argument with a Doctor [45:45]

Haley says:

Hey Robb and Nicki,

Thanks for all the awesome information you put out there, I have listening for several years now. Started when I was in school to become a dietitian and glad I did to realize that a lot of the info being taught and pushed on us was unfortunately out dated. Now I am currently working in a community health center where I work closely with the doctors who send me referrals and unfortunately sometimes feel as though I have to work within the box of their nutrition beliefs. The other day I was discussing the Impossible burger with one of the doctors. I argued against it saying it was just processed food and I would MUCH rather someone eat the real thing and actually get some real nutrition from it. He felt differently arguing that red meat was one of the worst things you could eat because of the carnitine. Unfortunately he didn’t really seem open to a discussion about it as he was set ins beliefs but I was curious what some of the points you would maybe make to convince him red meat is not the poison he is convinced it is.

Thanks!

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Transcript:

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Cancer, Lipids in Black People, Water Before Bed | THRR060

Fri, 08 Jan 2021 09:00:51 GMT

Coffee & Electrolytes, Cancer Diet Recommendation?, Lipids in Black People, Should I Increase My Carb Intake?, Water Before Bed

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Over 100 Scientists, Doctors, & Leading Authorities Call For Increased Vitamin D Use To Combat COVID-19 Scientific evidence indicates vitamin D reduces infections & deaths

1. Coffee & Electrolytes [15:26]

Valerie says:

Hey Robb & Nikki!

I’ve read on the web that coffee depletes (or can deplete) electrolytes. Is this accurate? And if so, is it because it’s a diuretic?

Thanks for all that you do! Been following you since 2013 when I first read the Paleo Solution and it “cured” my Crohn’s disease. Have a good one

2. Cancer Diet Recommendation? [17:05]

Levi says:

Good day dream-team, Robb and Nicki,

I was recently informed through several CT scans, PET scans, and MRI scans my cancer has returned, spreading into my brain and into my lungs. In 2015, I was diagnosed with a stage-3 melanoma cancer, reaching into my lymph nodes in my neck. The tissue site and the lymph nodes were removed and I was cancer-free ever. However, last week, after days of excruciating headaches, I was led to the ER by my better-half, my wife. I am about to embark on several biopsies of my lungs, more scans to view my bone marrow, the beginning of radiation and immunotherapy, and a ton of prescriptions (narcotics, steroids, anti-seizure, etc.). Though I am going to take the advice and opinions of the team of doctors on my case, I have already become overwhelmed with the amount of information presented by them and other friends and family. My question is really centered on general recommendations for diet and pain management. I hear to take CBD and turmeric and DHA, to eat no sugar, to try juicing, etc. I am skeptical of any friend advice, but also do not want to blindly walk into radiation and immunotherapy with only Norco and steroids to get by. I am usually very active, working out five days per week, keeping a largely animal-based diet, staying low-carb. However, since this has begun, I am lethargic, easily off-balance, and sedentary, thus my movement has been limited to couch surfing. Also, I am 31 and plan to have a long life, so any recommendations that you can provide that are short-term and long-term will be appreciated and implemented.

Sorry for the rambling, but I think you get the gist. You two are rockstars and I will keep being one the six listeners every week.

Levi

https://peterattiamd.com/fasting-and-cancer/

3. Lipids in Black People [28:39]

Phillipa says:

Can you talk a bit about the differences in interpretation of lipid panels for black people? I understand that triglycerides are normally lower than white people and so the trig/HDL ratio is not a good estimate of insulin resistance. Is the LPIR score still as valid as a health measure in the black population? What are the most useful markers on a standard lipid panel if you cannot get a LPIR?

Thank you for all your wisdom….

Are There Clinical Implications of Racial Differences in HbA1c? Yes, to Not Consider Can Do Great Harm!

“Studies that have compared HbA1c levels by race have consistently demonstrated higher HbA1c levels in African Americans than in whites. These racial differences in HbA1c have not been explained by measured differences in glycemia, sociodemographic factors, clinical factors, access to care, or quality of care. Recently, a number of nonglycemic factors and several genetic polymorphisms that operate through nonglycemic mechanisms have been associated with HbA1c. Their distributions across racial groups and their impact on hemoglobin glycation need to be systematically explored. Thus, on the basis of evidence for racial differences in HbA1c, current clinical guidelines from the American Diabetes Association state: “It is important to take…race/ethnicity…into consideration when using the A1C to diagnose diabetes.” However, it is not clear from the guidelines how this recommendation might be actualized. So, the critical question is not whether racial differences in HbA1c exist between African Americans and whites; the important question is whether the observed differences in HbA1c level are clinically meaningful.”

4. Should I Increase My Carb Intake? [39:16]

Aidan says:

Hey Robb just read wired to eat and loved it I’m pretty active and been doing a ketogenic diet for the past six months and felt great at first then fell into some electrolytes issues I then started to implement a target approach with 50 g of carbs round my workouts with a mix of glucose and fructose however I still feel low in energy I have recently upped my carbs to 150-200g of carbs and feel a little better, I listened to chris Masterjohn recently and he said that even a sedentary person needs 200g of carbs to fuel the brain so I am a bit confused how I should tackle this and whether I should change to high carb as you have said in previous videos where people go wrong is where there in the middle not high carb or high fat and if It would be beneficial to specialise in one fuel source however I know how important fats are for health thanks

Aidan

5. Water Before Bed [44:08]

Katie says:

Hi Robb and Nicki! Thank you so much for all you do and for your relentless quest to uncover the truth, stay on top of science, and deliver it in an easily digestible way!

Here’s what I’m pondering: I’ve read that it’s ideal to stop drinking water after dinner and late into the evening in order to allow the kidneys to rest during sleep, as well as to avoid middle of the night bathroom breaks, which obviously disrupt sleep. (I’ve also read that needing to pee in the middle of the night can mean that the kidneys are being overly stimulated by their neighbors, the adrenal glands, but that might be another topic altogether). Anyways, in trying to make sure that I’m getting adequate sodium, I salt my food with a pretty heavy hand, but I find it makes me really thirsty in the late evening. I drink 1-2 LMNTs earlier in the day, and wondering, should I dial back on the salt at dinner? Or drink more before bed? Or just deal with a little thirst? As a side note, if I get thirsty in the evening and go to bed without water, I wake up without feeling thirsty. Overall, I feel like my hydration levels are pretty good.

Thanks again for all you do!

Sponsor:

Transcript:

Download a copy of this transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health dietary or fitness change.

Nicki: Warning: When Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well there’s always Disney plus.

Robb: Maybe we should just look at each other in the video on the screen instead of at each other.

Nicki: That’s how you want to kick this show off today?

Robb: Yes. New year, new us.

Nicki: New year, new us. Here we go. The Healthy Rebellion Radio.

Robb: I think I still have pecans in my teeth.

Nicki: Do I?

Robb: You do.

Nicki: Excellent, thanks. You’re supposed to let me know that before we push record.

Robb: We try not to look at each other before that. You’re good now.

Nicki: I’m good?

Robb: You’re good now.

Nicki: Okay. Hey, everyone.

Robb: Howdy, folks.

Nicki: Good morning.

Robb: Welcome to 2021.

Nicki: ’21. Yes.

Robb: Literally never thought I would live this long. And then here I am.

Nicki: You’re going to turn 49 in a few weeks.

Robb: I’m going to turn 49 soon.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: I’m working on my yearly training and chow update and that will be exclusive to The Healthy Rebellion. So if you want to know if I’m on TRT and if I am, how much and when and how, then you got to sign up. No more freebies. Fucking Freddie Freeloaders.

Nicki: This isn’t a salty talk, hubs.

Robb: That’s usually pretty popular. We have a Rebel Reset rolling.

Nicki: Well, we just are wrapping up our seven-day cold shower challenge. So that has been super fun. A lot of people with some revelations and aha moments standing under the cold showers.

Robb: My aha is cold shower suck.

Nicki: It was kind of funny though. We had one member of The Health Rebellion community which I thought this was kind of genius, Nick, he said, “Day three done. I took my meat probe into the shower with me. My wife had some funny looks for me. It was 61 degrees and I made it for two minutes and 29 seconds. Much easier today, I found my mind wandering with thoughts instead of #UCK today. That was pretty funny.

Robb: Pretty smart.

Nicki: And then in the live chat that we had for the cold shower reset, Sybil mentioned that she was singing Amazing Grace while doing her cold shower and then there was this long stream of chats about which songs would be better, Nirvana, Coldplay. Squachi I think said that he thinks the best song to sing during a cold shower would be The Lion King theme song which…

Robb: That could work.

Nicki: (singing) Something like that. Or Hakuna Matata. Everybody loves that one.

Robb: I don’t.

Nicki: You don’t?

Robb: I’m just channeling our youngest who’s a contrarian about everything.

Nicki: Yes, she is indeed.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Yeah. Let’s see. What else? Our Rebel Reset kicks off next Friday on January 15th. We have our kickoff call then we start the seven day carb test which starts on the 18th. That’s optional for folks who want to see how they respond to certain sources of carbohydrates and amounts.

Robb: And again, we’re kind of orienting that at the front because many people enter the these things eating more of a standard mixed diet. So let’s just test your carb tolerance then instead of typically people go low carb and then we’ve got to increase their carbs to then test it.

Nicki: You have to test it.

Robb: In the last two times or the last-

Nicki: Last time was the first time that we did it.

Robb: Was the first time we did this. And it was really slick. I don’t know why I didn’t do it this way with the book and why we didn’t do it previously, but there were pluses and minuses on both sides. It was really eye opening where a good number of people were like, “Damn, I do not do well with carbs.” And then other people were kind of like, “I seem to do better than what I thought and they actually ended up doing more of a modest high carb lower fat Paleo-ish type thing.”

Robb: I think that that’s cool because clearly, I don’t know, 70, 80% of people likely do better on the lower carb side of things, but not everybody. Instead of making it a one size fit all, let’s do a little bit of testing and look into that.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: What are you grinning about?

Nicki: No.

Robb: I think you’re about ready to lose your shit. Is there something particularly hilarious about me this morning?

Nicki: No, no.

Robb: Do I have like a giant booger hanging out of my nose?

Nicki: Not today.

Robb: Today?

Nicki: In other days you have. Let’s see here. Okay. So after the seven day carb test, we jump into the 30-day reset and we’ve got folks who have been with us since the beginning since the inception of The Healthy Rebellion. They’ve done all of the resets with us. They look forward to them every time. Sometimes they shift their focus. Folks, usually choose a primary commitment or primary area of their health and lifestyle that they’re working on, be that food or body recomposition or sleep, and whatnot eliminating problematic foods, that kind of thing. I’m definitely cutting out dairy. The holiday keto cheesecake that I made, it has not done wonders for my skin. So that’s definitely on my-

Robb: Fair story.

Nicki: … list. So that’s a ton of fun. So if you want to get in on that, make sure you join before the kickoff. Well, you can join that week of the carb test. You can still join but you have to join before, I think it’s the 24th. I don’t have the calendar up in front of me, but I believe that’s the date. So jump in, join us. Anything else before we kick this show off?

Robb: I don’t think so.

Nicki: Okay. What do you have for our news topic today?

Robb: My good friend, Pedro Bastos forwarded this to me. Over 100 scientists, doctors and leading authorities call for increased vitamin D use to combat COVID-19. The scientific evidence indicates that vitamin D reduces infections and deaths. So we’ve got a link to that. I’m not sure…

Nicki: That title sums it up.

Robb: That title kind of sums it up. We are in very interesting times so it’ll see if this thing gets censored or suppressed. This is just such a fascinating time where even… This is totally evidence-based, although evidence-based doesn’t mean that it’s the truth because evidence-based, you can have two different bases of evidence vegan and paleo with being primary examples and have people citing references and studies and drawing different conclusions.

Robb: Not infrequently people will look at the same data and draw different conclusions. But the point being here is that there is a growing body of folks who are making the case that adequate vitamin D levels could really be a game changer in this and maybe we should ducking do something about it. We have these-

Nicki: It’s a pretty simple intervention.

Robb: It’s as easy as it could be. It is well established to improve all kinds of other disease potentialities. And heck, let’s maybe encourage people to lose that extra 20, 50, 100 pounds that they have and really actually make that a public health poll.

Nicki: Call to action.

Robb: Call to action JFK style. Like in 10 years we will send people to the moon and bring them back type thing.

Nicki: In 10 years, America will be the healthiest country on the planet.

Robb: Whatever side of the political divide you live on, if you have a leadership that doesn’t make that a priority one because if you think that the vaccine is going to come in and make everything 100% perfect, you’re a fool. I will mince no words around that. It’s probably going to have great efficacy, great benefit. In some circumstances, it will be an abject failure. In other circumstances, it will not be a one-size-fits-all fix for this stuff. As much as we just love in kind for those… In this world where everything gets fixed immediately and you have shit delivered to your doorstep within 24 hours of ordering it, we have this expectation that complex problems just get solved immediately.

Nicki: And imagine all of the other good and positive knock-on effects that would come from if we were… And I don’t even want to just say the United States, but if we were the healthiest we have ever been in the last 50 years as people on this planet. If people got significantly more metabolically healthy, like mental health would improve.

Robb: Did I do a salty talk on the Medicare?

Nicki: Yes.

Robb: I did do one. I mean, the implosion of medicare and the destruction of the economic and financial systems of the US will be caused by our healthcare system or not if we decide to change tack on this. In this time where we’ve got all kinds of social and political upheaval and whatnot, some people are feeling smug. Some people are feeling bugged. But if the powers that be like if Dr. Fauci, and Big Daddy, Joe and Kamala, and everybody else doesn’t get in and make our public health a number one priority, and hopefully not try to turn everybody into planet of the vegans in the process or maybe create some-

Nicki: That’s probably the direction it’s going.

Robb: Even if they did that, even if they said everybody’s got to be vegan, but we have to do it for public health for COVID, for all these other things, at least there’s enough truth there that people are like, “Oh, well, I can not ignore this anymore. I mean, people still can, but the fact that there’s not a message around that is as… Well, that silence is violence.

Nicki: I don’t know. You might get what you wish for and it might not be…

Robb: I would just be impressed if public health was actually framing just like this solution.

Nicki: They’re not doing it for public health though. It’ll be framed for the solution to climate change is the problem.

Robb: Could be, could be.

Nicki: And then everybody who does not thrive on a plant-based diet will be sicker than ever. There’ll be another reason for people to fight the streets.

Robb: It’ll just accelerate the implosion of things, so that’ll be good. But anyway, it’s a great paper. It just came out and I’m intrigued to see what type of censorship it actually experiences. Is this thing going to be allowed to be broadly distributed.

Nicki: Shared widely.

Robb: Or is this thing going to be ratcheted down from some pimple faced half-geek.

Nicki: Fact checked. This has been checked as false.

Robb: Right.

Nicki: All right. And we’ll link to that in the show notes obviously for anybody who wants to check out that full paper.

Robb: It’s very accessible. It has tons of citations in it. If you’re more on to research or public health side, if you’re just kind of John Q Public, Jane Q Public, Juana Q. Public, then it’s very accessible in that regard.

Nicki: Okay. I started thinking about other names in Italian that could start with J, I could throw in there but that’s my literal stream of consciousness. But we’ll skip that part. We’ll go on to our T-shirt review winner this week. It goes to Steven Cann. Courage. Thank you very much. He says, “It’s so disturbing. It seems as though we have entered the age of anti-science. The Great Barrington Declaration is a great example of this and thank you for having the courage to speak out. John Ioannidis, perhaps the world’s most cited and credible scientist was censored from the World Health Organization website. Despicable.”

Nicki: “He authored a study that was peer reviewed and showed a very low mortality rate for people under 70, .05% less than the seasonal flu. Ivor Cummings censored begging for an open debate. Your reputation is strengthened by this, not weakened. Truth is survival. Please keep telling the truth on all the topics you discuss. Thank you very much.”

Robb: Thank you.

Nicki: So Steven Cann, thank you. Send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com with your T-shirt size and your mailing address and we’ll send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio T-shirt.

Robb: And I’m telling everybody in 2021 to order one size too small so that we all look jacked.

Nicki: There we go.

Robb: There you go.

Nicki: All righty. The Healthy Rebellion Radio sponsored by our salty AF electrolyte company, LMNT. That’s spelled L-M-N-T. We just had one of our Healthy Rebellion community members, Christy post in the Rebellion what I think is just about a perfect ad. So I figured I would read it here.

Nicki: She says, “Did LMNT just ruin my marriage?” Okay, so that was clickbait and I’m a terrible human being for that, but here is the story. “My husband of 15 years and I are very competitive. It’s really stupid, but it is what it is. I started using LMNT about six months ago. He decided he was going to find some better electrolytes. I have watched him go through about eight different types. He keeps searching and searching, but I didn’t see him sticking to any one type.”

Nicki: “The other day, I noticed almost all my LMNT packets were gone. He confessed to me that there just isn’t any other brand out there that is tastier, easier to use or cleaner than LMNT. And I know it wasn’t easy for him to admit defeat. But he drank all my packets and I ran out for the first time. I was so not happy and I felt so lost. Thank goodness my order came in only three days from the time I put it in. So the moral? Don’t mess with my electrolytes and now he knows they are the best.”

Robb: So this was unsolicited.

Nicki: Unsolicited.

Robb: We were just tickled to get it.

Nicki: Yeah. It was really funny. So if you haven’t tried LMNT, listen to what Christy just said. Her husband has searched and searched and searched. So now is the time to try it. Now through January 31st of 2021, you can get a free eight-count sample pack. Just pay shipping which comes to just $5 for folks in the United States and you’ll get to try two sticks of each citrus salt, raspberry salt, orange salt and raw unflavored. Robb, of those four, which is your favorite?

Robb: I love orange, second raspberry, and at this point I only do the citrus in margarita bases. And then the-

Nicki: You like to mix the… You’ve been doing… We have like a big… How many ounces is that pitcher thing?

Robb: It’s like 80 ounces total.

Nicki: Okay. And you’re mixing a raspberry and orange plus the raw.

Robb: Orange and the raw. And that turns out great for me.

Nicki: So that’s also a thing you can do. You can mix them and play with the flavor combinations.

Robb: Yup.

Nicki: Just go to drinklmnt.com/robb. That will take you directly to the page with a sample pack and free plus shipping offer. That’s D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T .com/ R-O-B-B. And remember, that offer is good through January 31st of this month.

Robb: Awesome.

Nicki: Cool. All right. Questions. Our first one is from Valerie on coffee and electrolytes. She says, “Hey, Robb and Nicki. I read on the web that coffee depletes or can deplete electrolytes. Is this accurate and if so is it because it’s a diuretic? Thanks for all you do. I’ve been following you since 2013 when I first read the paleo solution and it cured my Crohn’s disease. Have a good one.”

Robb: That’s awesome. With any type of habituation to caffeine intake, that diuretic effect basically goes away. The body adapts to it very quickly. So if you’re not used to consuming caffeine and then you consume it, you will get a pretty potent diuretic effect, but I don’t know how many days. Three, four, five days of use and that diuretic effect largely goes away.

Robb: I do think that the way that we generally consume beverages can lead to electrolyte deficiencies though. My cup of coffee like whenever I read the studies that people were consuming eight cups of coffee a day and they were having all these benefits, I was like, “Damn, that’s a lot of coffee.” But I’ve taken any container that I have regardless of size to be a cup and it’s in fact like a eight ounce cup and my cups are typically 16 ounces.

Robb: So the way that folks consume liquids and beverages in general, I do think could be contributing to this kind of electrolyte imbalance particularly in inadequate sodium. So I do think it could be a problem from that perspective, but if you drink coffee or tea or what have you with any frequency, that’s not the driver on this stuff.

Nicki: Okay. Cool. Our next question is from Levi on cancer and things. He says, “Good day dream team, Robb and Nicki. I was recently informed through several CT scans, PET scans and MRI scans that my cancer has returned, spreading into my brain and into my lungs. In 2015, I was diagnosed with a stage 3 melanoma cancer reaching into my lymph nodes and in my neck. The tissue site and the lymph nodes were removed and I was cancer free.”

Nicki: “However, last week after days of excruciating headaches, I was led to the ER by my better half my wife. I’m about to embark on several biopsies of my lungs, more scans to view my bone marrow, the beginning of radiation and immunotherapy and a ton of prescriptions, narcotics, steroids, anti-seizure, et cetera. Though I’m going to take the advice and opinions of the team of doctors on my case, I’ve already become overwhelmed with the amount of information presented by them and other friends and family.”

Nicki: “My question is really centered on general recommendations for diet and pain management. I hear to take CBD and turmeric, and DHA, to eat no sugar, to try juicing, et cetera. I’m skeptical of any friend advice, but also do not want to blindly walk into radiation and immunotherapy with only Norco and steroids to get by. I’m usually very active working out five days per week, keeping a largely animal based diet, staying low carb. However, since this has begun, I’m lethargic, easily off balance and sedentary. Thus my movement has been limited to couchsurfing. Also, I am 31 and plan to have a long life. So any recommendations that you can provide that are short-term and long-term will be appreciated and implemented. Sorry for the rambling, but I think you get the gist. You’re rock stars and I will keep being one of the six listeners every week.”

Robb: Oh, Levi, really sorry to hear this. And please keep us updated. This is such an unknown area and it’s kind of frustrating because I think… So I’m sharing a link here from Peter Attia’s website where he reviewed a study on fasting cancer. Now this was in rodents and it’s a really worthwhile thing to read because the mice were fasted overnight, which in human analog could be a week to two weeks of fasting. So like a 24-hour fasting in a mouse is a very different thing than in a human.

Robb: And then these mice were exposed to what normally would have been easily a lethal dose of radiation. They had a control group which was not fasted than the fasted group. The control group all died in pretty quick order as would be expected with the radiation dose they received. None of the fasted mice died from the event and lived on to reasonably normal existence.

Robb: There was no over tissue damage to… I believe they were looking at colon cancer, intestinal mucosa and whatnot. Ir was also I believe in a separate study just looked at what the effect of that radiation dose was on abnormal cells, cancer cells and what fasting and/or ketosis seem to do is make more resilient the normal cells and make less resilient, the cancer cells.

Robb: This is not a 100% uniform story or at least oftentimes ketosis and fasting is presented from the whole glucose management story and like the Warburg Effect. There’s certain circumstances where it appears that ketosis and or fasting can embolden certain types of cancers. The thing that in my mind that isn’t very well understood is even if fasting or ketosis ramps up a certain type of cancer like melanomas tend to be the types of cancer that can be emboldened by fasting, it also though does appear to make the individual more…

Robb: The parts of the individual we want to keep versus the parts that we would like to move along seems to make it more resilient. So some types of cancer seem to be directly negatively impacted by fasting or ketosis. It makes it harder for them to survive. Some are neutral, some are actually emboldened, but then mixed into that whole story is the reality that it does appear to make organisms more resilient.

Robb: So what does that do in this treatment story? It appears that fasting or ketosis mitigates the nausea associated with chemotherapy in particular. It seems to improve the resilience of people to the chemotherapy effects. Man, it’s a really unknown thing right now and the thing that really freaks out doctors and I think rightfully so is that one of the hallmarks of cancer is cachexia, this massive wasting of muscle mass but tissue in general and people lose their appetite. So they really don’t like ketosis.

Nicki: Don’t want to encourage fasting.

Robb: And they don’t like fasting. Man, it’s such a quagmire and I think that within five years or 10 years, we’re going to have some really good answers to this. I suspect that fasting and hyperbaric oxygen therapy and some things that naturally… I don’t want to say naturally, but that are well regulated within our physiology to promote apoptosis and the destruction of abnormal cells.

Robb: I think that we’re going to understand a lot more about that, about how to roll that stuff out. Things like turmeric and high-dose antioxidants can be hit and miss because some of the things that these chemotherapies and also what radiation therapy is trying to do is increase reactive oxygen species because cancer doesn’t deal with reactive oxygen species as well as normal tissues. And the danger with turmeric is it’s a potent antioxidant.

Robb: But then the flip side of that, so taking vitamin C, high dose vitamin C in the context of normal chemotherapy could be problematic or radiation therapy because it may minimize the amount of reactive oxygen species. But then the flip side of that is doing IV vitamin C in a hyperbaric oxygen scenario increases reactive oxygen species because something as an antioxidant or a pro-oxidant depending on the situation, it’s all relative to everything else.

Robb: So this is where this stuff gets really complex and I am not an expert on it, but I follow it reasonably closely. But it’s where under one circumstance vitamin C could be a great adjunctive therapy, but it needs to be used properly. And you cannot get effective doses orally. You don’t absorb it. You end up with a diarrhea and gastrointestinal issues and so it has to be intravenous.

Robb: Usually in a hyperbaric oxygen environment tends to kind of prime this thing to make it work better. So Levi, I would read this piece and I think that the notion of fasting in this context and like how many podcasts have we done where I’m beating up on fasting where I’m really not a big fan of it? I think that this is an area where like a medical intervention specific to this for a really you know unique and delineated purpose. This is where I think that fasting could have some real utility. But we just don’t know and like as with everything. There will be trade-offs if Levi is experiencing huge decreases in appetite and he’s just having a hard time eating, do you just run with that and try to really get as much juice out of those gnarly chemotherapy radiation therapy interventions as you can? It’s like I don’t want to eat anyway, so you just don’t. Instead of sticking in just enough to keep you out of that fasted state and avoid potentially getting some of the benefit, I don’t know.

Tanning Beds for Vit D, Creatine at 40+, Eating Enough Protein | THRR059

Fri, 01 Jan 2021 09:00:37 GMT

Lack Of Cognitive Benefits On The Keto Diet, How To Eat Enough Protein (And Is That Too Much Protein), Tanning Beds And Vitamin D, Creatine Over 40 years Old, Muscle Gain

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Show Notes:

News topic du jour:
Hallmarks of Health

Health is usually defined as the absence of pathology. Here, we endeavor to define health as a compendium of organizational and dynamic features that maintain physiology. The biological causes or hallmarks of health include features of spatial compartmentalization (integrity of barriers and containment of local perturbations), maintenance of homeostasis over time (recycling and turnover, integration of circuitries, and rhythmic oscillations), and an array of adequate responses to stress (homeostatic resilience, hormetic regulation, and repair and regeneration). Disruption of any of these interlocked features is broadly pathogenic, causing an acute or progressive derailment of the system coupled to the loss of numerous stigmata of health.

1. Lack of cognitive benefits on the keto diet [19:57]

Sally says:

Dear Robb and Nicki,

I have a question relating to a comment that Robb made on the recent Diet Doctor podcast about how Nicki didn’t feel any of the cognitive benefits or mental clarity usually associated with keto, and similarly does not suffer with the keto flu when reentering ketosis.

I wondered if this was at all typical as this is the first time I have heard this mentioned and is very close to my own experience.

I have been keto for just over a year and other than a little tiredness for about a week after starting, I have never felt any keto flu symptoms, or the miraculous mental clarity, amazing sleep or ability to go hours without food that everyone else seems to achieve. When I test my ketones I am usually 0.5mmol or above. Maybe I never had brain fog or crappy sleep to start with, but I am starting to feel like I’m being shut out of a special keto club, especially when it comes to the ability to effortlessly fast as my fellow keto dieters do.

I wonder if I need to have higher readings to feel these benefits, and if so do you have any suggestions on how to achieve this if my macros and electrolytes are on point?

I know that the few times I have had a high carb/ sugar day I have had terrible inflammation the following day, so I am happy that keto is doing something, even if I don’t feel like I am getting all of the benefits that others do.

I would welcome your thoughts as any time I try and find anything via Google, I just get reams of reports of how everyone is achieving what I’m not.

Many thanks

Sally

2. How to eat enough protein (and is that too much protein)? [28:01]

Eric says:

Hi,

Thanks for all your work. It’s excellent and I appreciate it.

1) Do you have any tips for eating enough protein from whole foods?

While I don’t regularly count macronutrients, when I do try to get 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass, I find it difficult to eat that much food. If I achieve the target protein one day, the next day, I’m not interested in eating. I consider protein powders a bad idea because they seem like exactly what we’re trying to avoid: manufactured, out-of-context, and hyper-palatable.

2) Is eating this much protein even a good idea?

Longevity circles appear to have some fear over protein consumption in relation to mTOR signaling and cancer.

At the risk of falling into binary thinking about a complex subject, what are your thoughts on balancing the benefits of more muscle in older age versus cancer prevention?

Background on me: 42 years old; 167#, stable for years; 11% body fat as measured by DEXA; no known major health issues; recent bloodwork including cholesterol (183 mg/dL total, 68 HDL, 104 LDL, 38 trigylcerides), testosterone (673 ng/dL total; 58 pg/mL free; 120 ng/dL bioavailable), and others are all normal (according to Quest’s reference ranges); double-bodyweight deadlift, 1.5x-bodyweight back squat, ~65 second 400 m sprint, ~22 minute 5 K run time, and lots of pull-ups; very regular sleep and sun exposure; cyclic low-carb paleo diet (sweet potatoes on days with a crossfit or similar workout) with daily homemade bone broth (500 mL, ~20 g of protein); twice a year 5-day water-only fasts.

Goals: happiness, health, and robustness/strength throughout the rest of life. I regularly wrestle, jump in bouncy houses, and throw around in water my two kids (ages 6 and 10) and want to continue to do so for a long time — if they ever have kids, with the grandkids, too. I’d love to gain 10# of muscle, but that’s secondary to happiness.

(Background and goal information sent in the hopes of covering any clarifying questions you might have.)

Finally, please send me an email if you choose to answer this question. Sometimes I miss episodes because I’m playing with my kids!

3. Tanning Beds and Vitamin D [44:29]

Hannah writes:

Hello! I am curious about supplementing sunlight with tanning during the winter. I live in northern Colorado, so vitamin D is something I worry about for half the year. Robb has mentioned using tanning beds in passing but I’d love to hear more in depth information if possible. Thank you for all that you two do! It sure is appreciated.

Hannah

4. Creatine over 40 years old? [53:45]

Jamie says:

Hi Robb,

I’m a huge fan and have been reading your books and listening to your podcast for years. I am just about 100% paleo, and experiment with keto as well. You’ve definitely helped me improve my health and overall fitness, and I greatly appreciate that!

On your podcast, I heard you say that creatine is a relatively safe supplement and you give it a thumbs up. The co-owner of my crossfit gym has a Ph.D. in microbiology and recommends that people don’t use creatine supplements since doing so can impact the body’s ability to make creatine on it’s own. Further, she said that people over 40 should especially avoid creatine supplements since the kidneys start slowing down at that age and creatine can impact the kidneys.

I’m in my late 40’s now and have seen the benefits of creatine supplementation when I was in my 20’s, but am concerned about starting it up again at this age. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Thanks Robb

Jamie

A review of creatine supplementation in age-related diseases: more than a supplement for athletes

5. Eating for Muscle Gain [57:18]

Jay says:

Hi Rob & Nicki – understandably the weight loss questions get a ton of focus but I would love to hear your thoughts on how to optimize diet and training to gain lean muscle mass. All my friends tell me “you just need to eat everything and anything” but I really don’t want to gorge on ice cream, bread, and other processed garbage. I realize this would be a quick way to achieve a caloric surplus and add size but I’d prefer a cleaner and healthier bulk approach even if it takes longer. I would love to hear any advice or suggestions you two have on how to identify the proper caloric and macro needs and then strategies for hitting those numbers with cleaner sources of food. And any thoughts on a keto (Ketogains) approach vs a high protein approach (Ted Naiman) that seem to be the two popular trends right now. Context: I’m a 28-year-old male, 175lbs, work a desk job, and lift weights 4-5X a week, occasionally mix in sprints, HIIT workout, and sauna. Thanks for all you do!

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Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Where you can find us:

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Is muscle mass THE most important factor in effective aging?

Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:58:56 GMT

Is muscle mass alone a major factor in effective aging?

The authors of Muscle Mass Index As a Predictor of Longevity in Older Adults make the case that folks could/should focus more on building and maintaining muscle vs. say, losing body fat.

I’m not enough of a statistician to be able to comment on if that really holds water, but it kinda makes sense. At a minimum, it could shift the focus in a way that lends itself to better adherence.

Something to keep in mind, and why I think a focus on muscle mass is a one-stop-shop for effective aging.

…

Want my full thoughts on Muscle Mass Index As a Predictor of Longevity in Older Adults?

If you’re a The Healthy Rebellion member, read, comment, and ask your questions here.

If you’re not a Health Rebel yet and are interested in my full breakdown on this article and ones like it, coached Resets and Challenges, and the best health and resilience community anywhere, come join us at the The Healthy Rebellion.

Can Do: A Conversation with Adam Bremen | Salty Talk 028 | THRR

Mon, 21 Dec 2020 21:57:43 GMT

Salty Talk is a special edition of Healthy Rebellion Radio. Each week on Salty Talk Robb will do a deep dive into current health and performance news, mixed with an occasional Salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health, and longevity.
For the full the video presentation of this episode and to be a part of the conversation, join us in The Healthy Rebellion online community.

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

SHOW NOTES:

This is an interview with our friend Adam Bremen. He has an amazing story, and has always focused on the positives; what he CAN do vs. what he can’t.. He’s a serial entrepreneur that was born with cerebral palsy. Adam has been in a wheelchair since age of 5 and has not let that stop him do tons of things like learning to surf, getting a Master’s degree, starting businesses, and much more. He’s a fantastic human being with a lot of good stuff to share.

Sponsor:

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Transcript:

Coming soon…

Medicare, Exponential Debt, and You | Salty Talk 027 | THRR

Fri, 18 Dec 2020 09:00:23 GMT

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

SHOW NOTES:

https://media4.manhattan-institute.org/sites/default/files/behind-CBOs-100-trillion-projected-deficits-BR.pdf

peakprosperity.com/video/crash-course-chapter-4-compounding-is-the-problem/

https://plangap.com/

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/about

IDK, maybe I got out over the tips of my skiis on this, but given how health is affecting the economy and healthcare delivery, I think it’s in my purview.

At the beginning of COVID, we talked a fair amount about how if someone knows a catastrophic event is possible, even if they take few if any steps to prepare for it, they are better off, if for no other reasons, that when life goes sideways, they are not surprised. I’m hoping that talking about all this can put you in a spot to possibly be better prepared but mainly that when all this plays out, you will not be surprised.

Although this focuses on the US, the economic problems that will emerge due to both a sick and aging population will come to pass for just about everyone, EU, OZ and NZ included. It’s not a matter of if, only when. We could likely mitigate that process if we had a fervor for health on par with what happened when we put people on the moon. I think that’s a fantasy, but also why the Healthy Rebellion exists. We are unlikely to help everyone, but by God, we will help who we can.

Let me know what you think on this and if it resonates, let’s talk more about the resiliency steps we can all make to be better prepared.

Sponsor:

This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Ned. Ned produces the highest quality Full Spectrum CBD extracted from organically grown hemp plants, all sourced from an independent farm in Paonia, Colorado. Ned is a wellness brand offering science-backed and nature-based solutions as an alternative to prescription and over-the-counter drugs. In every thing they do, they help people feel better and live better through the powers of the natural world. Go to www.helloned.com/SALTY15 or enter code SALTY15 at checkout for 15% off your first order. Listeners also get 20% off their first subscription order. Free shipping is now unlocked at $100 purchases.

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Hungry Carnivore, Weight Loss Plateau, Exercise Affecting Handwriting | THRR058

Fri, 11 Dec 2020 09:00:34 GMT

Carnivore Diet – Eat until satiety?, Weight Loss Plateau, Handwriting, HPA and Glycogen, Leptin

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Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Glucose or Insulin, Which Is the Culprit in Patients with COVID-19 and Diabetes?

“Several comorbidities have emerged as risk factors for severe COVID-19 development, including type 2 diabetes, increased body weight, hypertension, and dyslipidemia. These illnesses characterize the metabolic syndrome. Thereby, increased glucose concentrations may be responsible for the reported poor outcome. Indeed, in a large retrospective study from Wuhan, type 2 diabetes was associated with a higher death rate due to COVID-19, though the death rate was lower with better controlled blood glucose (Zhu et al., 2020). This would advocate for aggressive treatment with glucose-lowering drugs such as insulin. Contradicting this deduction, in a new correlative retrospective paper by Yu et al. (2020), the authors identified insulin treatment as a possible trigger of death rate in COVID-19 patients with diabetes (Yu et al., 2020). Thus, which is the culprit for the worth outcome in patients with COVID-19 and diabetes, hyperglycemia or insulin? Maybe both, and there are still other suspects in these multimorbid patients.”

1. Carnivore Diet – Eat until satiety? [16:44]
James says:
After almost a year of strict elimination diets amongst other therapies, I’m trying a beef-only diet to get to the bottom of some chronic health issues. I’m 3 weeks in and all my symptoms are worse than before.

I’m eating to just above my *estimated* energy expenditure (by ~400kcal), but I’ve been advised (https://www.kevinstock.io/health/fat-loss-and-the-carnivore-diet/) to eat until satiety and that my appetite will eventually regulate. Until then – as someone who’s been doing keto for 2 years, suffering with autoimmune stuff, tracking my macros and workout out consistently (as opposed to being overweight & coming from SAD) – I can expect to gain some body fat.

I struggle with ever feeling satiated after a meal. I can eat over 2lbs of meat in a meal – or even until I’m physically sick – and still be hungry. I’d love to be able to eat intuitively and until satisfied, which is why I’d consider taking the advice, yet as someone who struggled with anorexia, know it will be incredibly difficult for me.

Q. Do you think this is the way to go, or would it be better to gradually increase calories, “reverse dieting” style? If the former, how do you imagine it’s working? If the later, how do you know when to stop increasing calories and on average how long should it take?

I imagine the major benefits from carnivore diets come from elimination of sensitive foods & subsequent gut relief & healing. I’m sure this helps the satiety, but if eating until satiety is simply revving up the metabolism maybe it’d be better to do so with reverse dieting, to minimise the damage.

I’d just be afraid if I didn’t follow the advice and did it in a more measured way I’d still be continuously hungry after. I’d be willing to gain body fat temporarily if it helped resolve this.

Thanks for your help Robb & Nicki – loving the podcast

2. Weight Loss Plateau [26:29]
Ashley says:
Hi Robb and Nicki!

A huge thank you for all your research, knowledge and opinions (especially when salty that you share with the world. I am currently studying natural nutrition and every time I read something in my books that sounds outdated I literally go through all your episodes to hear if you have any insights, and almost always, you do!

My question today is about weight loss plateau on Keto. I am 35 years old, mom to 4 (ages 6,4,2 and 12 months). Since about the age of 7 I was a vegetarian because I didn’t like the idea of eating animals and even vegan for a few of my early adult years. Wait, you’ll start liking me in a minute My entire diet pretty much consisted of simple carbs and low fat dairy at times. (insert Woman hitting herself in the face emoji here)

During my first pregnancy, I began craving chicken which was so weird but I knew that cravings for “healthy” food meant I was probably missing nutrients and so for the baby, I stopped being a vegetarian. I gained 30 kg (66lbs) during that pregnancy and before losing all of it, became pregnancy again, and again gained far too much weight.

During my third pregnancy, I had gestational diabetes and decided to make all dietary changes necessary because I did not want to start with insulin. That’s when I started to read about carbs and sugar etc. I made changes to my diet to reduce the simple carbs mostly and stopped eating things like bread, crackers, cookies. The Junk. During this pregnancy I didn’t gain as much weight and it was much easier to get most of it off quickly but then, 8 months later I got pregnant again! My fourth pregnancy was amazing because I was following a low-carb healthy diet but I knew that after having the baby I would need to work hard to get back to the body composition that I wanted. That’s when I learned about keto.

So 4 weeks after birth I began keto and couldn’t believe how fast the weight and inches were coming off. The change in diet affected my life in every way possible that I decided to go back to school for nutrition too!

So exactly one year post-partum, I have lost 16kg (35lbs) this weight came off by 6 months after having the baby but since then hasn’t budged. I am 5″4, 138lbs. And would like to lose those last annoying 5-8 lbs and I have completely plateau-ed.

I eat 2 meals a day, about 1200-1300 calories a day with pretty good keto macros of about 20% protein, 75% fat and 5% carbs. (I do eat ALOT of veggies). My protein comes mostly from Salmon (twice a week), beef (steak or hamburger) twice a week, eggs, nuts…

I do like to treat myself once or twice a week to some full fat whipped cream with some berries and usually finish off my meals with some 99% dark chocolate.

I have to admit I add 100% natural peanut butter to smoothies, 10% yogurts or just shamelessly put a tablespoon in my mouth when I feel like something sweet. I’m trying cut down because of the toxicity, omega-6 and carbs in peanut butter but I really really love it.. so that’s hard

I don’t get hungry much (only after fasting for more than 18 hours), feel great and haven’t been sick once all year!

I lift weights twice a week, cardio once a week, yoga twice a week. My arms, legs and glutes are toned and I’m quite happy with how far I’ve come and what I really want to improve (hence the feeling of being stuck) is the belly area which is still bulging out and I feel like I have years of stored fat in there that’s just not budging.

I check blood ketones every day and I’m usually between 1.1-1.8 so I know I’m definitely in ketosis.

Should I be reducing my calories to get past this plateau? I don’t want to mess with my metabolism. Are the indulging snacks holding me back? (They are pretty much counted in the calories. Those are days where I can reach 1300, 1350. On days where I don’t snack I’ll usually be around 1200.)

Is this a plateau or should I just accept this new body composition as being post 4 pregnancies?

Sorry for the long long long question, but I wanted to give you as much background as possible.

Thank you so much for your time and sending both of you lots of love and appreciation from Israel!

xo
Ashley

3. Handwriting [36:30]
Tim says:
Hey Robb,

Really enjoy the podcasts. I just started listening a few months ago and it’s great for when I’m driving to work or really anywhere that’ll take me at least 10 minutes to drive to. You have a good combination of “complicated science” explanations and dumbed down explanations so I can follow along with most of what you’re talking about without needing to fully understand the more scientific stuff. And I feel like I’m always learning something that’ll make me healthier or keep me healthy longer.

I’ve been doing Crossfit for a couple years now and I’ve noticed my handwriting “neatness” has gone to shit. It seems to take a lot more effort to write legibly than it used to take. I feel that there’s some connection between all of the exercises/lifts that use my forearms (pull-ups, snatches, cleans, etc.) and my handwriting troubles. My girlfriend started going to the gym I go to about a year ago and I asked her about this handwriting issue recently and she said she noticed it with herself also. I was just wondering if this is common for people who do Crossfit-esque workouts and if there’s some kind of stretch or exercise I could do to help with it.

Thanks,
Tim

4. HPA and Glycogen [46:38]
Mark says:
My understanding of your work, high intensity exercise is heavily glycogen dependent and some level of carb fueling is required to refill glycogen storage or you risk adrenal fatigue. I periodically experiment with checking blood sugar levels and have noticed after a 10 min intense TM interval workout, my blood glucose can stay relatively stable (80’s) or shoot up to a high level for me (110) which is typical of eating a higher carbohydrate meal. This seems to correlate with either low or moderate carb fueling the previous 2-3 days. Would very small changes in glucose levels before and after intense brief exercise indicate inadequate glycogen levels and thus a higher risk of adrenal fatigue? I have not found any studies on this related to non-diabetic subjects with good insulin response. I have been folowing your diet recommendations for several years and tend to be carb sensitive so stay in the 50-100g daily range. Wondering if I can use this change in glucose levels to help me gauge when more carbs are needed. As a side note, I have noticed the first couple of meals when I eat higher carb actually causes a drop in my blood sugar one hour post meal which makes me think it is replacing glycogen.

5. Leptin [54:10]
Danielle says:
Hi Robb!

I have been following you for many years, read your books and love learning from this Paleo/ Keto/ Carnovire community! I have a question for you regarding this VLC/ZLC lifestyle and leptin resistance. I have been an athlete my whole life, but I have also struggled with the last 10-15 lbs my whole life so when I had my DNA tested and learned that I have homozygous result for the LEPR gene, it really didnt surprise me much- explains a lot why its always been tough to shake these last few pounds no matter what I try! I am a 37 year old female, 5’3″, 135lbs and last time I had a DEXA in August I was 30% BF. I went paleo about 7 years ago, keto about 2 and more recently, carnivore although the past month or so I have started to reintroduce some plant matter and other fat sources. I feel like i’ve tried every macro combo you can imagine and I have also tried every exercise method from HIIT to running to weights, yoga, you name it. Anyway, I am just curious what your advice is for someone like me? I used to fast everyday but I have read that ppl with Leptin resistance really shouldnt be engaging in fasts longer than 12-15 hours, eat smaller, slower meals and thats all good but what about carbs? Do I need some, none or more than keto standards? I would really love your advice on this, I dont see much from our integrative/ bio hacking community on this subject.

Thank you for all that you do!!

LEPTIN RECEPTOR (LEPR) DEFICIENCY

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Transcript:

Download a transcript of this episode here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with a bold aim to help 1 million people liberate themselves from the Sick Care System. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness changes. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Nicki: Morning hubs.

Robb: Morning wife. You’re looking quite lovely today.

Nicki: Cool. Thank you.

Robb: No, you can’t even lie in a reciprocal way. You look pretty good today too.

Nicki: You’re looking dashing, hubs.

Robb: Thank you. Thank you.

Nicki: Dashing.

Robb: For some reason I have watery eyes. I took the garbage out and it was chilly. I’ve lost my cold tolerance being in Texas apparently. Wow. We’re off to a hell of a start man.

Nicki: I am verbose this morning, apparently. What’s new?

Robb: I was sick last week.

Nicki: Yeah. You were not feeling well.

Robb: No. I had several days of just tired, end of the day, I’d be like, “Holy smokes I’m tired, then what?”

Nicki: We had our holiday party on last Thursday.

Robb: Virtual holiday party.

Nicki: Yeah. The next day you were smashed.

Robb: Then I slept two hours longer than I ever sleep. I woke up with a sore throat. I had a little loss of sense of smell and taste and was just really, really tired. I started looking at options for COVID testing and it all seemed really fucking onerous.

Nicki: It’s not like you go anywhere anyways.

Robb: It’s not like I go anywhere anyway. I was betwixt in between as to whether or not to follow up on that and then ended up not and was each day incrementally. I was really tired, Friday. Saturday I felt 85% better, Sunday another 10%. Then yesterday I was fine. I worked out, I didn’t log like a PR on anything, but I got through it and was quite tired by the time I went to bed. But I feel fine today. I don’t know if I had Corona or not. The weird loss of smell like you went out in the backyard and you were like, there was a skunk back here. I stuck my head out and I’m like, are you fucking with me? I couldn’t smell it at all. Had some raspberry element, and it did taste like that had been brewed in the ass of a skunk and then decanted. It just tasted-

Nicki: I tasted it and it tasted totally normal.

Robb: You were like, it tastes completely normal. I don’t know.

Nicki: Kind of bizarre.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: But I don’t know with some of the rapid test stuff being 50-50 accurate, it’s if you’re not you don’t need to go anywhere. If you don’t need to interact with other people and you seem to be getting better each day, there was not really much point to getting it.

Robb: Right. I’m still curious, just like, was that … Was it? I mean, I’ve been sicker from stuff that isn’t shutting the world down. I don’t know, I’m curious. I think the antibodies stay high for at least a couple of weeks. I may still follow up and get that checked out. I’m sure somebody will be like, “So irresponsible for you to not do it.” It’s like, “Listen, fuck head, I don’t go anywhere. I don’t really do anything.” I didn’t go shopping and I didn’t go lick doorknobs or anything else the two days that I was legitimately sick. I don’t know. I don’t know.

Nicki: Let’s see, we’ve got our Rebel Book Club just started this past Monday inside The Healthy Rebellion. We’ve got Rachel James, one of our rebels leading us through that. We’re reading The Secret Life of Groceries. I’m super excited. My book is coming late, so I’m going to be jumping in late. Lots of people can jump in late if that sounds interesting and you want to get in on that, just join The Healthy Rebellion.

Robb: There’s a lot of folks in there.

Nicki: A lot of folks reading it. Rachel has put together some amazing reading questions for the first couple chapters and I’m excited to jump in, looks good. Let’s see, we also have our seven day cold exposure challenge coming the first week of January. Anybody who’s eager to test your resilience when it comes to cold water, I think it’s mostly a shower challenge unless you have access to a freezing cold swimming pool or some other body.

Robb: I swear a shower just seems worse in a way. I feel just immersion is not as bad as a cold shower, but maybe it’s just me.

Nicki: Maybe. One of our rebels Ashe Higgs is going to lead us through that beginning January 1st. Then of course, we’ve got our rebel reset beginning, January 15th. Lots of fun stuff coming down the pike inside The Healthy Rebellion community.

Robb: Indeed.

Nicki: Indeed. All right, hubs, let’s get into this episode. What do you have for our news topic today?

Robb: I guess I’ll read off of this screen even though we have a …

Nicki: Do you want me to scroll over here or?

Robb: We’re still figuring together our gig.

Nicki: We’re figuring out our setup.

Robb: The news topic du jour, glucose or insulin, which is the culprit in patients with COVID-19 and diabetes? It’s a interesting paper we’ve had a good discussion in the rebellion about this. When I just looked at the title, I tried to take a stab at what I would predict being the more problematic feature there. I guess that glucose would be the … What are you doing you’re just?

Nicki: Nothing.

Robb: You’re drifting around.

Nicki: Well we have two screens going and I was seeing that the red recording icon was on this one, but not on the one that I was looking at before. I was having a little bit of like, shit is this still recording moment?

Robb: I could tell you weren’t paying attention, not that you usually pay attention to me, but there’s usually some like, “Hey, hand something off here.” Like, “Oh man”.

Nicki: I’m clued into what you’re saying. I had a brief moment of like, hopefully we’re still recording.

Robb: Unknown and unknowable, that’s what Greg Glassman would say.

Nicki: Carry on.

Robb: My guess was that glucose would be the more injurious of the two factors within this whole COVID story. Extrapolating from the fact that in Sepsis septic individuals, they see remarkably high blood glucose levels. They will apply insulin. Not only does the insulin, it clearly drives down blood glucose levels appears to be an anti-inflammatory agent in that process as well. I was guessing maybe the glucose would be the worst one, they’re both bad. From the paper, several comorbidities have emerged as risk factors for severe COVID-19 development, including type two diabetes, increased body, weight, hypertension, and dyslipidemia. These illnesses characterize the metabolic syndrome, thereby increased glucose concentrations may be responsible for the reported poor outcome. Indeed in a large retrospective study from Wuhan type two diabetes was associated with a higher death rate due to COVID-19 though the death rate was lower with better controlled blood glucose.

Robb: This would advocate for aggressive treatment with glucose lowering drugs, such as insulin. Contradicting this deduction is a new correlative retrospective paper by you at all. The authors identified insulin treatment as a possible trigger for death rate in COVID-19 patients with diabetes, thus, which is the culprit for the worst outcome in patients with COVID-19 and diabetes, hyperglycemia, or insulin, perhaps both, and there are still other suspects in these multi morbid patients.

Robb: It’s interesting, one of the big … It is well understood that elevated insulin levels, particularly chronically elevated insulin levels increase the likelihood of clotting. Clotting appears to be one of the gnarly co-factors that goes along with this COVID disease progression, stroke, a heart attack, a clot in the lungs or more systemically. The long and short of it is that poor glycemia needing to be controlled by elevated insulin levels, one way or the other is a bad scenario. Fuck we’re nine months into this and we knew this literally almost from day one, almost from day God damn one.

Nicki: It seemed like in March. It really became a thing here in March. March was when places first started locking down. I feel that’s when the first paper came out that showed that there were more deaths with comorbidities happening in China.

Robb: Right, with type two diabetes and metabolic disease. Where are we at this point? As a nation, we will focus on the United States. I know there are folks listening from all over the world, but within the United States, are we healthier?

Nicki: No, we’re worse.

Robb: Is our vitamin D better? Is our metabolic health better?

Nicki: We’ve been inside for most of the year.

Robb: Where is the messaging from the Fauci’s and anybody on this and people will say, well the current administration fucked this up in a variety of ways. Okay maybe. If we don’t see Joe Biden standing on top of the entire state building beating a pan saying, get metabolically healthy, then he fucked up the same way too. It’s just like, this is the one thing-

Nicki: If you really cared about outcomes and saving lives, this message metabolic health coupled with vitamin D. Those are the two things that have been shown again and again, to have a positive outcome in COVID-19 patients.

Robb: The only thing that’s driving me to want to go get my tests is to be able to say it was a gnarly cold for two days for me. I was tired enough where I was like, “Oh, I get it.” If you were in shitty shape, if you had some other problems, if you were a smoker or something, I get it, it could have been really bad. But I wasn’t. Your dad is convinced that he got it in January.

Nicki: He couldn’t smell or taste anything for, it was like three weeks.

Robb: He’s 70, he’s in phenomenal shape.

Nicki: He walks up this hill that we call Heart Attack Hill near his house every day. It was four months where he couldn’t do that.

Robb: He just started doing-

Nicki: The fatigue was just massive.

Robb: He would do part way and then a little further and a little further. He is 70 years old in great shape and it kicked his ass pretty good, but he wasn’t hospitalized. I know his vitamin D is good. He eats more less kind of keto.

Nicki: He works outside most of the year doing landscaping.

Robb: He works outside. He lifts some weights a couple of times a week just getting his pump on, but he’s in great shape. And he’s 70 and he motored right through it. It had some after effects for sure, but this is some of the stuff that it is just so controllable. Again, today’s not a fucking Salty Talk, so I’ll get off my high horse with this thing, but all the drama around masks and lockdowns and this, I don’t want to turn it into a Salty Talk, but just really quickly. People losing jobs, people under stress, they eat poorer, they exercise less, they sleep less well, they will be less healthy. Some other thought just really quickly, and maybe we’ll dig into this with a legit Salty Talk, but some other thought is that the United States similar to Sweden is having such a rough go because we had two years of very mild flu seasons.

Robb: This is pretty darn defensible. You just look at CDC numbers and compared to historical outliers, it was actually very mild seasons and then COVID hit. People are nicely run, nicely calling, dry tender or what have you, but a lot of people who were exceptionally high risk for severe disease and dying. They’re getting quite sick and they’re dying, and in remarkably high numbers. Really about the only thing that we can do is get people as metabolically healthy as we can, and age being an independent risk factor in this whole story and being 80 and healthy is still going to be a rough go.

Robb: It just most likely is, it would be a rough go with standard influenza like that. That’s just our deal, but mixed into all that. If tons of people who otherwise would have been reasonably healthy, eating reasonably well, sleeping the sleep of somebody who has a roof over their head and isn’t facing eviction and foreclosure and all the rest of that shit. How many other people are going to get sick and die because of the way that shit’s being handled. It’s not entirely clear that lockdowns are really doing much of anything. If you really have some stout feelings to the contrary of that, get in and read the literature on that. In fact, I’ll do one better. I’ll do a Salty Talk on it and present some literature on that. Then we can have a discussion. Okay, we’ll shift out of that.

Nicki: All right. Let’s move on to our t-shirt winner this week. This week goes to Runnerschmom, encourages thoughtful conversation on topics for health and life. I appreciate the thought and research that goes into these podcasts. Could we have more thoughtful conversations like this, please? Thank you for having common sense, encouraging people to think things through and really listen to the science. Strange times we are living in. Ranash mom, thank you for your review. Send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com with your t-shirt size and your mailing address. We’ll send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt.

Robb: What more could you ask for?

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Nicki: We have a thread going in The Healthy Rebellion Community right now, where somebody is considering buying one for his wife. One rebel said, we gave ourselves a Joovv last Christmas. So it’s the old one, but even so I absolutely think it makes the little aches and pains go away. It makes my skin look better and puts me to sleep at night. When I use it on the back of my head before bed. She says the sleeping part is probably subjective on my part because I sleep pretty well anyway, but the skin and sore muscles and joints is a definite win.

Nicki: It’s time to treat yourself or someone you love to a Joovv red light therapy device. For a limited time Joovv wants to hook you up with an exclusive discount on your first order. Just go to joovv.com/rob, that’s, J-O-O-V-V.com/R-O-B-B and apply code Robb and Joovv will hook you up with an exclusive discount on your first order. Again, that’s J-O-V-V.com/R-O-B-B.

Nicki: Alrighty. You ready for questions hubby’s?

Robb: Let’s do it.

Nicki: This one is from James.

Robb: This one gets a little squirrely, there’s a lot of moving parts in this. It’s interesting.

Nicki: His question is about eating until satiety on a carnival diet. James says after almost a year of strict elimination diets, amongst other therapies, I’m trying a beef only diet to get to the bottom of some chronic health issues. I’m three weeks in and all my symptoms are worse than before. I’m eating to just above my estimated energy expenditure by about 400 calories, but I’ve been advised to eat until satiety and that my appetite will eventually regulate. Until then as someone who’s been doing keto for two years, suffering with autoimmune stuff, tracking my macros and my workout consistently, as opposed to being overweight and coming from a sad diet. I can expect to gain some body fat, but I struggle with ever feeling satiated after a meal. I can eat over two pounds of meat in a meal, or even until I’m physically sick and still be hungry.

Nicki: I’d love to be able to eat intuitively and until satisfied, which is why I’d consider taking the advice yet as someone who struggled with anorexia, I know it will be incredibly difficult for me. My question, do you think this is the way to go or would it be better to gradually increase calories like reverse dieting style? If the former, how do you imagine it’s working if the latter, how do you know when to stop increasing calories and on average, how long should it take? I imagine the major benefits from carnival diets come from elimination of sensitive foods and subsequent gut relief and healing. I’m sure this helps the satiety, but if eating until satiety is simply revving up the metabolism, maybe it’d be better to do so with reverse dieting to minimize the damage. I’d just be afraid if I didn’t follow the advice and did it in a more measured way, I’d still be continuously hungry after. I’d be willing to gain body fat temporarily if it helped resolve this. Thank you for your help, loving the podcast.

Robb: What’s your take on this?

Nicki: Oh, goodness.

Robb: Why are you going to my screen?

Nicki: Because I’m trying to … This is a mess. We’re not doing the two screen thing again. I’m trying to make sure that the screen you’re looking at is at the same spot as the one I’m looking at.

Robb: I’m just looking at yours.

Nicki: So I can abandon that one.

Robb: I’m good. I’m adaptable.

Nicki: Then I’ll abandon that one.

Robb: There’s something here, one thought that I had is a man with one ass cannot ride two horses. It’s what specific … Again he alluded to this. He’s like, I get that if … It’s sounding he’s reasonably lean, but he’s dealing with what sounds like some pretty gnarly health issues. Those health issues appear to be getting worse, not better. That’s a thing. One of the main questions we ask folks is what is the primary goal? I don’t get a sense of what the primary goal is here. I think that that’s root cause for the problem.

Nicki: I think primary goal is to get rid of all of his health issues.

Robb: One would think so, but he devoted nearly all of his effort in to figuring out, I guess, to some degree, how to induce adequate satiety and, or not lose or gain body fat. I’m really getting the sense that he’s super concerned about gaining body fat and I don’t know how lean he is, but I think that that’s miss applied focus. If there are indeed these underlying health concerns here-

Nicki: Number one, let’s get you healthy, period.

Robb: Yeah. If things, indeed … It would be again interesting what got worse? Is it digestion? Is it inflammation? We just see person after person, we just had somebody in the rebellion the other day, they were like, my MS it seems to be going into remission and they just started this. Not everybody gets that from carnival. There’s the funny thing, I was just on Jorge Cruz’s podcast the other day.

Robb: He’s like, so tell me what carnival is. I’m like, it could be a million different things. You’ve got one cup carnival, and then you’ve got nose to tail. Even within those tails, some people eat dairy and other people don’t. Then you have some people that eating chicken and pork is a no-no because of linoleic acid. Point to that being usually people get better on this stuff. The fact that he’s not, is interesting and concerning. I would be really interested to know, okay, what else is going on inside James?

Nicki: He’s doing beef only, is he doing ground beef? Some people don’t tolerate that. You could play with the cuts and stuff, because there are certain people that only tolerate a certain kind of beef, which is more on the …

Robb: Correct. People who have histamine issues sometimes don’t do as well with the ground beef and that they need to stick more with a steak and then you have to go more rib-eyes and things like that because the fat content, otherwise you got to render fat and provide it from outside. I’m not really answering his question much here, like the reverse dieting thing. I don’t know. I’m just so perplexed, what type of hunger?

Nicki: I’m wondering if he’s eating any fat.

Robb: Well, that would be a good …

Nicki: Because you need fat as well.

Robb: You do. One of the interesting things is if you eat too much … Protein is very satiating, it’s satiating and then it flattens and can decrease to some degree because protein requires co-factors either fat or carbohydrate to be metabolized, to remove it from the system. It’s satiating up to a point and then if you consume more protein than that satiating level, it will stimulate appetite. I guess maybe-

Nicki: I’m wondering if that’s what’s happening. If he’s sticking to a really lean cut of beef, because he’s concerned about his calorie level.

Robb: It wouldn’t necessarily have to be a really lean cut of beef. He may just be over eating the whole thing just across the board, just entirely just overeating. It’s funny, I was pushing back on this whole notion of following the reverse dieting deal. But something like that where you’re just set your baseline. Although, he said that he’s only eating slightly above energy expenditure and he’s still-

Nicki: 400 calories.

Robb: He’s still hungry. I guess I would ratchet it up in small increments would be a way to look at this. Also the fact that we’re not getting resolution of these underlying health problems seems concerning. I know I’m just all over the map here, but for some reason, something about this thing is, I don’t want to say irritating, but there’s something unsatisfying here. It’s like, what else is going on? There’s something about this that it just is not satisfying. What’s his name again?

Nicki: James.

Robb: James, again, nobody ever seems to circle back with us when we asked for this, but if you do want to circle back and give us some more input, then we could follow up and later-

Nicki: I would love to know, what symptoms are worse?

Robb: What’s going on there?

Nicki: What’s really going on there?

Robb: Give us some actual …

Nicki: What are you eating? You say beef only, but what specifically does that look like in a given day?

Robb: How much do you weigh? Give us … What are your dimensions? What exactly are your ailments? Exactly how much food are you eating protein, carbs, fat. I assume carbs is pretty low because it’s a carnival. He said he can eat two pounds of meat in one meal. I definitely can

Discordance Theory | Salty Talk 026 | THRR

Mon, 07 Dec 2020 18:33:15 GMT

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

SHOW NOTES:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201021163945.htm

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejcn20094

Going back to my roots! An interesting look at the Turkana, a pastoralist people who still have folks living their traditional lifeway (and are pretty damn healthy on an 80% animal product diet) vs those who have moved to cites and are eating a largely starch based diet, heavy in processed foods.There are not many of these natural experiments left to run their course…there is a lot to learn from them if we take the time to look.

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Transcript:

Coming soon…

Sugar Addiction, Visceral Fat, Melatonin for Kids | THRR057

Fri, 04 Dec 2020 09:00:37 GMT

Melatonin Usage with Kids, Training When Sleep Deprived, Sugar Addiction or Need For Carbs, Can Visceral Fat Go Away Without Procedures, Carnivore Diagnosed with Alpha Gal

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Does a ketogenic diet lower a very high Lp(a)? A striking experiment in a male physician

1. Melatonin Usage with Kids [14:07]
Jim says:
Hi Robb & Nicki,

My wife and I discovered you and your Paleo work back in 2011 and it’s totally changed our lives (for the the better). Thank you.

My question is around using melatonin as a sleep aid for children. We’ve used it periodically in the past for our now 8 year old daughter, though recently I’ve noticed we’ve been using it with her more regularly – in particular now that the sun stays out longer and we’re trying to keep our kids on their regular sleep schedule. Is this okay? 0.5mg seems to work really well, though now that it’s becoming more of a regular thing, I’m getting concerned about dependency or other long-term side effects that I’m unaware of.

I asked a psychiatrist about this a while back. He voiced a more general concern about the general population just blindly taking things that the body naturally produces (like melatonin) without understanding how it works in our natural processes. He also didn’t think there was research on the long-term effects of melatonin usage in children and therefore couldn’t recommend.

Thoughts?

https://docparsley.com/sleep-remedy-kids-berry-sleepy-time/?

2. Training When Sleep Deprived [21:17]
Pauliina says:
Hi!

I’ve been suffering from insomnia for over a year now. No acute stress or anything. Just hard time to fall asleep and stay asleep. I get only 5-6 hours of seep a night and the sleep quality is usually quite weak. I was on SSRI’s for ten years and after I stopped the medication (gradually) sleeping became an issue and insomnia exploded. I’ve been wondering if insomnia is a withdrawal symptom of some kind.

I’m now having several health problems due this chronic sleep deprivation. This includes higher blood sugar levels, memory and cognitive issues, possible adrenal fatigue, blurred vision, etc. Also my IBS and acid reflux has gotten worse. It takes several days to recover even though I’ve decreased my training a lot. I lift weights twice a week (max. 30min/session before noon) and train Jiu-jitsu once or twice a week. I often just have to skip the jiu-jitsu (which bothers me!) because it’s in the evening (6-7.15 pm.) and I’m just too tired for it. Makes me feel like a loser.

So long story short: how to train when one is heavily sleep deprived?

Thanks a ton!!!

3. Sugar Addiction or Need For Carbs [28:25]
Lauren says:
Hi Robb and Nicki,

I’m trying to figure out if I’m a sugar addict or if maybe carbs just help me function better. I’ve been generally eating low carb/paleo with some forays into keto for the last 10 years or so. While my blood sugar issues have completely resolved, I still struggle with an afternoon slump where I often feel like the only thing that will make me feel better is a venti Frappuccino with 3 extra shots or something with an equivalent amount of sugar and caffeine. While I never indulge to that degree, I’ll occasionally have some dark chocolate, fruit or some other source of sugar. I’ll immediately feel 100 times better and feel like a switch flipped in my brain and I’m a brand new woman. I’m wondering if this indicates I am super addicted to sugar and need to cut it out and maybe suffer a little before I’m rid of the addiction, or if this is just an indication that I am someone for whom keto is not ideal. For background I’m 33 years old, generally healthy, and nursing a baby. When doing keto, I supplement with 5-7g sodium per day. Thanks for your time and advice.

4. Can Visceral Fat Go Away Without Procedures? [37:21]
Annie says:
Hey Robb-

Thanks for looking over my question.

I am a 51 yr old woman- 27 years with Hashi’s and I was just diagnosed with Reactive Hypoglycemia.

(Additional Back story- I’ve recently come through a 3 yr ordeal with adrenal fatigue and whacked out thyroid)

In a recent Dexa scan, it showed that I have a layer of visceral fat (and a much higher general body fat % than I expected) which prompted my Endo/Functional Med doc to advise me to start taking Metformin (I cried- I feel like I lost ) .

The scan results explain why I can feel the solidity of my ab muscles , but still have a section in my lower belly that is distended from under my ab muscles and not the same quasi-flatness of my upper abs.

Even though I eat Low Carb/ Keto and do HIIT/Crossfit/Lifting 3-4 hours a week , I cannot seem to get the fat from this area to reduce or disappear.

Will these combined strategies( low carb, exercise and metformin) shrink fat cells or make the fat go away? Or am I doomed to this to be my new, undesirable situation? It’s not simply about vanity, its actually more about how I feel in a body that is not the one I’ve known and had to work with throughout the majority of my life. I’ve always been a mesomorph/athlete and usually around 20-22% body fat naturally (now I’m measured at 32%).

My question is it possible for that visceral belly fat to go away or get smaller through my current course of action? Or is that only possible through outside tools and resources like cool sculpting? I realize that sounds pretty vain, but again, it’s a big change for my body and I am not loving it at all.

Thanks Robb-

Annie

5. Carnivore Diagnosed with Alpha Gal [45:15]
Clay says:
Hey guys big fan going back to the early podcast days (read all your books also). Anyhow (enough sucking up) started Keto a little over a year ago. Switched to 100% Carnivore a few months in (along with IF), lost 70lbs, blood markers outstanding and eliminated all inflammation and skin issues and most importantly improved mentally (eliminated anxiety). Last week I was diagnosed with Alpha Gal allergy (from Lone Star tick) that makes me severely allergic to mammal meat and diary. Any suggestions on how to stay as close to Carnivore as possible. I’m most concerned about maintaining fat intake since chicken and turkey are so lean. Thanks in advance! Clay from Mississippi

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Transcript:

Download a transcript of this episode here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick-care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.

Robb: Good morning, wife.

Nicki: Good morning, hubs.

Robb: I think we’re recording.

Nicki: I think we are. We had a little bit of a technology-

Robb: When we rejiggered our recording setup.

Nicki: Yeah. We had to make sure everything was working as it should be, and we had a little snafu but I think we’re dialed in.

Robb: Oh, you do, do you?

Nicki: I do.

Robb: Just give it some time.

Nicki: Yeah. I don’t want to jinx ourselves.

Robb: So, what’s new? What’s exciting?

Nicki: Well, we had a second dog for eight whole nights, a little puppy. That was fun.

Robb: A little Ridgeback puppy.

Nicki: Yup. That was fun. She …

Robb: That told me that one dog is plenty for now.

Nicki: Yeah. No, it was fun. And Dutch got to play a bunch, which was nice. And then we were happy to send her on her way which … It was-

Robb: We were.

Nicki: … fine. Let’s see. I am going to go over some announcements coming up in The Healthy Rebellion before we kick off this show. Gosh. Okay, we’re recording this on December 1st, and even though this releases on Friday the 4th, Thursday the 3rd, so this will …

Robb: Your dad’s going to be angry at you for that.

Nicki: Why?

Robb: Thursday the 3rd.

Nicki: Oh gosh, okay. Yeah. My dad’s my biggest audio critic and I’m constantly getting notes about how my audio sucks. So, apologies to all of the listeners, and sorry dad. We’re doing our Healthy Rebellion virtual holiday party this Thursday. So, when y’all are listening to this on Friday morning hopefully I’ll-

Robb: Can I just interject something? It pisses me off that this is being called a virtual party. There is nothing virtual about it. It’s a goddamn party. We just happen to not be in the same location.

Nicki: Okay. Are you outraged?

Robb: I am outraged. This is outrage culture coming at you. Bam.

Nicki: Did you know that Dan Crenshaw thinks outrage is a sign of weakness and I tend to agree?

Robb: Damn it. Fucking losing already. Damn it.

Nicki: All right. Saturday, December 5th, which is the day after this episode releases, we are doing a holiday app board gone wild with one of our amazing rebels, Chef Eva Bee. She’s going to show us all the ins and outs, and tricks for making an amazing holiday appetizer board.

Robb: She’s beautiful. She’s smart. She’s good in the kitchen.

Nicki: She is. Yup. And we’ve got a couple rebel chats coming up in The Rebellion. All of this to say seven-day cold exposure challenge kicking off our January rebel reset, Friday the 15th of January. So, all of this to say if you are not a member of the Healthy Rebellion, what are-

Robb: Why the hell not?

Nicki: … you waiting for?

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: So anyway, you can join-

Robb: Seriously, though. You get these resets. We have the strength challenge, the mobility challenge …

Nicki: All kinds of stuff.

Robb: So much good stuff.

Nicki: And just good, good people.

Robb: But hey, if you’re an asshole, don’t come.

Nicki: Yeah. We don’t want you if you’re an asshole.

Robb: We are getting selective about who we want in, so-

Nicki: Asshole free. It’s an asshole-free zone.

Robb: Am I out?

Nicki: Except for you. Except for you.

Robb: Guess you need one.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: Just need one.

Nicki: You can be our token asshole.

Robb: Perfect. Okay.

Nicki: Let’s see. Another cool announcement. If you haven’t tried our electrolyte drink mix, LMNT, we are now doing, just for the month of December, a special limited-time free plus shipping offer. So, if you haven’t tried it, this is the time to do it. So, basically, you can get a new sample pack, which is eight stick packs with two citrus, two raspberry, two orange, and two of the raw unflavored, all for the cost of shipping which is $5.00 if you live in the United States. And that is only available from December 1st through the 31st. So, get on that if you haven’t tried it. This is a great opportunity to do so. You can do that by going to drinklmnt.com/robbsamplepack. That is drink L-M-N-T.com/robbsamplepack.

Robb: And if you missed that, we’ll probably have this on social. We’ll be pimping and promoting throughout.

Nicki: Yeah, and we’ll shoot out an email as well. But I know not all of our listeners are on our email list, which they should be, but this is why. Take note.

Robb: Lots of finger wagging today, man.

Nicki: Feisty. All right, hubs. What do you got for our news topic today?

Robb: Well, if my assistant would scroll up a little bit it would facilitate my reading. Pretty cool paper. It is exceptionally small in number. It is an N=1, but it is one of these crazy things called a case report. And this is where actual science begins oftentimes in medicine. One person has kind of a wacky observation, and then shit happens from there. And the randomized control trial doesn’t just emerge … What was it? In Greek mythology, some of the gods were born out of Zeus’ head or something like that. Doesn’t happen that way, oddly enough. Title is Does a ketogenic Diet Lower Very High LP(a)? A Striking Experiment with a Male Physician. Lp(a) is a modified LDL particle that seems to confer higher atherogenic potential, but it is a … And so concerning from the perspective of cardiovascular disease.

Robb: Instead of hanging this thing out as Oh my God, my body is trying to kill me, it’s going to step back and ask, “Well, why would evolution develop something like this?” People with higher LP(a) also have less likelihood of bleeding to death. So, in times gone by that was actually a good thing. In times currently going by, potentially less of a good thing. This is another one of these things though, within standard lipidology circles you have folks that will say, emphatically, that you can not modify LP(a) via diet, exercise, and other interventions. That is proving to not be true. And so, what this gentleman did, who is a physician, he did a very low-carb, ketogenic diet, and the LP(a) dropped significantly. And then he did a high-carb, low-fat diet, and the LP(a) went up significantly.

Robb: I believe it was as high as the low 100’s, and as low as the low 70s, depending on high-carb versus low-carb. Does this ultimately confer greater or lesser cardiovascular disease risk? We don’t know. But the main thing that we start digging into here is that this supposedly written in stone, cardio metabolic flag is modifiable, and massively modifiable. At least in some people. I would not be the least bit surprised that in some people it doesn’t modify significantly, one way or the other. I also wouldn’t be surprised if most of the dietary interventions looking at this were absolute jokes, and so of course it didn’t really modify because their … High-fat diets are always like 40% carbohydrate too, so it’s basically a high-fat, high-carbohydrate diet. So, anyway. We’ve got a link to that. We are actually talking about this over in The Healthy Rebellion. I don’t really talk about this stuff much on social media anymore.

Robb: I dump it out there, and then scurry back to The Rebellion because people are nice, and amicable, and I guess some people are saying, “It’s just an echo chamber over there.” And it’s like, that’s fine. The voices sound good, and people are nice, and so I’ll deal with that echo chamber.

Nicki: I don’t think it’s really an echo chamber-

Robb: It’s not an echo chamber. People are just assholes.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: They just need something to say about everything.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: It’s like people-

Nicki: That’s right. That’s why you are the only asshole in The Rebellion. All the other assholes are on social media.

Robb: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Nicki: All right. Let’s give away a tee shirt, a Healthy Rebellion Radio tee shirt. This week it goes to MeredithO1975. She says, “Man, what would I do without this show? I found this show recently and I’m totally hooked. The content is smart, real, and funny, and I find myself smiling and laughing out loud as if I’m hanging with friends. If that makes me a creep, so be it. I appreciate how Robb and Nicki break down research, current events, and other topics, and offer up information so you can make up your own dang mind. I really admire how they keep it cool and professional, because I sure get fired up listening to some of the things they discuss. Thanks Robb and Nicki, and please know the difference you are making is so important and needed.” That is super cool. MeredithO1975, thank you so much. Send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com with your tee shirt size, and your mailing address, and we will send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio tee shirt.

Robb: Probably. More than likely.

Nicki: We will.

Robb: We will. I have nothing to do-

Nicki: You won’t.

Robb: … with that.

Nicki: You won’t.

Robb: Yes. I-

Nicki: The asshole does not send the shirts.

Robb: Yep, yep, yep.

Nicki: And this episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Joovv. Joovv red-light therapy devices can help reduce pain and inflammation, improve sleep, help rejuvenate your skin, and boost your libido. Joovv is the leading brand when it comes to red-light therapy devices. They pioneered this technology and they were the first ones to isolate red and near-infrared light and make it accessible, and affordable, for in-home use. And as we’ve said before, Joovv just launched their next generation of devices, they’re sleeker, and up to 25% lighter. And if you’re wondering where in the heck you would put your Joovv, their new devices have quick, easy-mounting options. So, you can fit your new Joovv in just about any space. There are several facets to living your best life, eating whole, unprocessed diets, prioritizing good sleep, smart strength training, minimizing stress.

Nicki: Robb, you like to talk about prioritizing recovery. It’s not all about just train, train, train, but we also have to recover.

Robb: It would be awesome if it was just a person who works the hardest wins. But you have to work hard, and then actually allow some space for recovery, and growth, and all that stuff. So, your recovery side of the equation is equally important. As you get to be a geezer, like me, then it gets ever more important. And Joovv is an awesome adjunct to that whole process.

Nicki: Yeah. Getting lots of healthy light with red light therapy, like Joovv, is another key to living an optimal life.

Robb: Can I just digress-

Nicki: Sure.

Robb: … a minute here? There’s lots and lots of discussion about things like climate change, and resource allocation and whatnot. I just have to point out, the fact that Joovv has made their platform 25% lighter, and still providing all the same benefit, but that is classic stuff of where something starts growing, it starts expanding, and people figure out ways of making it cheaper, yet better at the same time. So, if people just give stuff some space, let it go, life gets better. Unless we ruin everything.

Nicki: You just had to insert some economics-

Robb: Sociopolitical economic commentary.

Nicki: … into this-

Robb: Yeah. It just chaps my-

Nicki: … information?

Robb: … ass though, because we’re kind of in this mode where the world’s going to end, and everything’s bad. It’s like no, it’s not. Things are good, and when you give things … And also, just a little bit of a side diversion, things like this will get cheaper and better over time. So, maybe Joovv is, and things like this, are not accessible to every single person currently, if we support it, if it’s good, then these things will get cheaper and better over time. And maybe five years from now everybody has one of these, and everybody benefits from it. But when you-

Nicki: Just like the first microwave was like $3,000-

Robb: It was like-

Nicki: … or something.

Robb: … No, it was like $20,000 in today’s numbers.

Nicki: Gotcha.

Robb: And now they’re so cheap as to be almost single-use and throw it away. Which is, I’m not advocating for.

Nicki: Right.

Robb: But just making the case that things don’t always roll out as … Where it is uniformly available to everybody. But when we let people experiment with things, and tinker, and it actually proves to be beneficial, and helpful, then these things get cheaper, and more-

Nicki: Innovation happens.

Robb: … innovation happens.

Nicki: Furthers … Yeah, yeah.

Robb: We’ve just seen a lot, and again I know we’re reading an ad, but I’m … We’ve seen a lot recently when we do poke our nose into social media, where people are talking about things. Like, “Well, this group is so privileged, and you shouldn’t even go near this because not everybody has access to it.” That is one of the dumbest commentaries I’ve ever seen, because if the thing is actually good, then the early adopters will subsidize the process of making it ubiquitous to everybody. So, sorry Joovv, you’ve got to-

Nicki: Slash end-rant, Robb.

Robb: Yes. Yes.

Nicki: All right, folks. It’s time to treat yourself to a Joovv red light therapy device, and for a limited time Joovv will hook you up with an exclusive discount on your first order. Go to Joovv.com/robb. That’s J-O-O-V-V.com/R-O-B-B, and apply code Robb. And you’ll be all squared away. Okay.

Robb: That’s probably the last ad Joovv will ever support.

Nicki: That was a good one. Okay, you ready for questions?

Robb: Am I wrong though?

Nicki: No, you’re not wrong.

Robb: Thank you for saying that.

Nicki: You’re not wrong.

Robb: You probably still hate me, though.

Nicki: No. I’m still here.

Robb: Just shows how limited your dating options are.

Nicki: Okay. Let’s move on to our first question.

Robb: Okay.

Nicki: We’ve got a question from Jim on melatonin usage with kids. “Hi Robb and Nicki, my wife and I discovered you and your Paleo work back in 2011, and it’s totally changed our lives for the better. So, thank you. My question is around using melatonin as a sleep aid for children. We’ve used it periodically in the past for our now eight-year-old daughter. Though recently I’ve noticed we’ve been using it with her more regularly. In particular now that the sun stays out longer, and we’re trying to keep our kids on their regular sleep schedule. Is this okay? A half milligram seems to work really well, though not that it’s becoming more of a regular thing I’m getting concerned about dependency, or other longterm side effects that I’m unaware of. I asked a psychiatrist about this a while back, and he voiced a more general concern about the general population just blindly taking things that the body naturally produces, like melatonin, without understanding how it works in our natural processes. He also didn’t think there was research on the longterm effects of melatonin usage in children, and therefore couldn’t recommend. What are your thoughts?”

Robb: Yeah. So, Doc Parsley developed a Sleep Remedy product for kids, and it is … It’s half the dose, so half a milligram is 500 micrograms, what the Doc Parsley product uses is 250 micrograms. So, even half again there. This is a tough one, and this is where daylight savings time, and I suspect compared to when this was submitted as a question to now-

Nicki: It might be … Yeah.

Robb: … it may be less of a thing. It is a bugger, particularly if you live at more northern latitudes, like the days get longer, that time shifts and then the kids’ once nice sleep schedule goes to absolute hell. I will say that it kind of sucks that the days are … It gets dark earlier, but the kids go down earlier, too. I would actually kind of lean more towards, say the blue blocks glasses-

Nicki: Like red light glasses.

Robb: … red light glasses.

Nicki: Or blue light blocking glasses, yeah.

Robb: Blue light blocking glasses. I would lean towards that as a first intervention. I would lean towards decreasing the light, ambient light, get some dimmer switches, get some … In this office, we have daylight light in here, and it’s kind of harsh. I would go more with the-

Nicki: Warmer light bulbs.

Robb: … warmer lights, and then if you dim those down they tend to shift more towards the red and orange. We find that if we do stuff like that, the kids go down pretty easily. And then in the summer, when the sun is just up longer, it just kind of is what it is. And this is where I guess, I don’t know, this is a tough one. We’re homeschooling, so we don’t have as …

Nicki: Gnarly of a wake-up schedule-

Robb: Yes.

Nicki: … as a lot of people do.

Robb: So, if kids are going to be chronically under-slept, would it be more beneficial to give this thing two or three nights out of the week so that they go to bed earlier. I think it would probably be okay. There is a concern around this process called tachyphylaxis, which is where the body down-regulates the ability to produce melatonin. And I see stuff, funny enough that just seems to be my life these days, I see stuff that suggest that this is not a problem with melatonin, and then I see stuff that is just like hair on fire, good God, only take it for jet lag and never any other applications.

Nicki: Which one of those is fake news?

Robb: And I wouldn’t be surprised if it depends on the person.

Nicki: Right, right.

Robb: It’s the irony there. Melatonin is a neuro hormone. So, would I approach that with a little trepidation around chronic usage? Maybe. Maybe. We’ve talked about this on the podcast before, where a high school in Austin moved the-

Nicki: The start time of their school-

Robb: … high school start time one hour later, and in one year the motor vehicle accidents decreased like 85%. Now granted, it’s one year, so you don’t have a super long … But man, the data on this stuff is so compelling where if kids are under slept … Kirk has made the point that the symptoms of sleep deprivation are … You can not tell the difference between that and ADHD. When you just go item by item, they are indistinguishable. And he really makes the case that anybody who’s wanting to head down the road of ADHD-type meds, and they haven’t addressed sleep hygiene, they’re really doing the kids a disservice. So, this is where like, Goddammit, some day I hope we can do a call-in show and really make that stuff work well, because it’d be interesting to know what time do the kids go to bed summer versus winter?

Robb: What time do you have to wake up most of the time? Do we have a really-

Nicki: And following a lot of the same sleep hygiene stuff that we’ve talked about for a long time. Like minimizing screen time in the evening, gettin

The One-Year Anniversary of My Life Reset

Thu, 03 Dec 2020 18:18:20 GMT

Testimonial written by: Janet

Today is the one-year anniversary of my life reset.

A little over a year ago, I started thinking about an upcoming milestone birthday, and taking stock with where I was, who I was, and who I had been for the last few decades of my life.

With just over 200 days to go before I turned 60, I decided that I had finally had enough of being less than I could be.

Not only was I tired and frustrated and embarrassed at being very fat, I was nearly as frustrated with being a very smart person who couldn’t figure out the solution to this problem. How could I be such an intelligent and resourceful teacher of ballet—solving problems, creatively improving my teaching methods and seeing remarkable results in my students—and remain so clueless and powerless against the one goal that has eluded me my whole life?

“If I am smart enough to figure out how to teach the intricacies of ballet technique to even the least intuitive and least coordinated of students,” I thought, “surely I can figure out my own eating and weight issues!”

So I made a list of my goals:

Be healthier
Weigh less – enabling my body to find its ideal weight & size
Be pain-free
Be more mobile
Have a high and consistent level of beta-endorphins

The method I use to teach ballet does the following:

Breaks everything down into its components
Teaches those components in a logical progression
Analyzes the things that are not easily visible to the naked eye, often debunking traditional beliefs and ineffective teaching methods, and replacing them with solid science in an ever-evolving system that really works

Could I use these same guidelines in analyzing and conquering my eating/weight issues?

I teach my ballet students to treat each desired step or and movement like a recipe: figure out what it takes to achieve the end result (the ingredients), and then focus on quality and consistency. Put the finest ingredients in, in the proper amount and order, and you’re always going to get the same results.

If achieving your goal requires skills that must be mastered, you get there fastest and most assuredly if you practice them every day.

No days off. No procrastination. No cheating.

So what, then, was the recipe for the life I wanted to live for the rest of my days on this Earth? And what were the component steps and skills I needed to master in order to have consistently awesome days every day? And finally, was I really ready to give this process my full, undivided, and un-cheating attention—every single day, for the rest of my life?

I made an initial list of food items in Yes and No columns (and eliminated and +added to the columns as I went along):

Yes	No
water	coffee
eggs	sugar
meat/poultry	flour
fish/seafood	rice
beans	grains
hummus	+dairy
any some vegetables	+cheese
fruits	+nuts & peanut butter
nuts	+alcohol

My main strategies, at first, were to make very small changes—things I could absolutely commit to—and then practice them for 3-4 weeks before cutting something else out or adding in a new discipline. My only real ideas for how to accomplish the eating goals were to progressively eat smaller and smaller amounts, and then to choose the most nutrient dense options for those small meals. (Eat like a person who has had bariatric surgery – without the risk or side-effects of the surgery itself.)

Day 1: I started journaling and have kept up that discipline every day since – although the format of the journal changes according to what I’m focusing on. At first, I wrote sentences and lists. I commented on my day, and how I felt physically and emotionally. I went cold turkey on the coffee, sugar, and flour which was not my original intent, but once I decided to stop, I have stayed committed. I focused on listening to what my body wanted to eat, and when, and even a little bit of when to stop.

Day 9: I journaled that “my original plan was to just spend the rest of 2019 focused on what I’m eating. But so far, removing sugar, flour, etc. has been a non-issue. It doesn’t seem that I’m going to need that much time to solidify those choices.” I considered adding another baby step strategy from my list:
◦ Eat the best bites first, so it’s not as difficult to stop when I’m no longer hungry.
◦ Fix smaller portions, even if I need to go back and get more
◦ Evaluate hunger before eating and try to stop @ 0. Maybe record these numbers in the journal for awhile. (If I do both of these last two first before I worry about drastically reducing portion sizes, maybe the issue will mostly resolve itself?)
◦ Reduce portion sizes to absolute minimums.

Day 18: Still having no problems selecting and eating the right things. But I find myself eating too much, especially at night. I started using smaller bowls and plates for my meal, until eventually, much later on, I was eating each meal out of a coffee cup.

Day 32: Started doing some upper body weight work every day, and noting that in my journal. Then slowly over the next few weeks, added some other very light movement. The conundrum, from the start, has been that I need to move more to burn fat. But being very fat limits the kind and amount of movement I can do.

Day 80: Switched to journaling in a grid/diagram, adding symbols for the movements I added to my exercise routine, and rating my pain level, ease of moving, and overall attitude. I started meditating daily and haven’t missed a day since.

Day 116: The last day I taught ballet classes in a studio and the first day of Covid-19 stay at home orders. While the rest of the world was panicked about the situation, I immediately recognized it for the gift it was to me – the opportunity to focus completely on the new-me-in-progress, without the distractions that my job has always imposed. I might have been the only one who felt this way, but I loved being confined to home and unable to work normally. I embraced each minute as an opportunity to turbo-charge my efforts. I did start teaching again from home, via Zoom, within a couple of weeks, but it was with a reduced and much less stressful schedule that still allowed plenty of time to stay focused on myself.

Day 136: Started seriously trying to walk outdoors every day. For the first few days it was less than 1000 steps (which probably doesn’t even count as a walk to some), but I had to start with what I could do! Hauling so much weight around was slow and painful.

All along the way, I paid attention to how different foods made me feel. When they made me feel yucky, I gave them up and haven’t looked back: wine, cream cheese, all cheese, white potatoes… And I also gradually decreased my portion and meal sizes until they were quite small. I could feel my clothes getting looser, and my movement getting easier and less painful. But then I seemed to plateau.

Day 200: Two days before my 60th birthday, I wrote “The best thing about today is that I have kept my word to myself and done what I set out to do for 200 days straight – without screwing up, or dropping out! I have made some experimental choices and learned from them: no hard seltzer; cheese might not be worth it. Some goals were easier to master than expected: went cold turkey into no sugar, no caffeine, no flour. Also meditating every day. Some were harder: walking, Tai Chi Jani. But I have stuck with it and it has been remarkably easy with almost no temptations. (And when I started to feel the temptations, I knew the cause (hard seltzer), and battled through without succumbing.)”

I stayed in a sort of limbo, plan-wise, for a couple of months. I was still slowly eliminating foods that didn’t seem to work for me and I continued to eat smaller amounts and monitor hunger levels. I had done really well with daily walking for about 3 months and slowly increased the distance
and pace; but once we reached the hottest part of the summer, I had a hard time making myself walk, and I was still in a fair amount of ankle and foot pain. I wasn’t gaining weight, but I couldn’t really feel myself losing either. During this food and movement plateau, I started sending pleas out into the universe during my meditations, asking for new directions, new ideas.

In late August, I was been researching foot articulation exercises to help my pointe students and came across Dr. Andreo Spina and FRC. In researching those, I found a YouTube interview between Dr. Spina and Robb Wolf, which inspired me to research the latter.

I knew nothing about Paleo or Keto (although I did Atkins in the 70’s). I’d heard of intermittent fasting, but hadn’t paid any attention to it (although I’ve fasted a fair amount in the past – anywhere from 3-30 days at a time.)

Day 288: I bought Wired to Eat and set in motion a series of changes over the next 80 days. The first big takeaway from the book was that I was going to have to give up beans and the few fruits I was still eating. And it planted the seeds of ketosis again in my life.

Day 301: Stopped eating fruit & legumes

Day 307: Bought Keto Masterclass

Because I had just spent the last 300+ days slowly making changes, I felt like I was already nearly working the full plan. But hearing the science, and learning the new (to me) ideas it offered that I might not have ever discovered on my own, made the monetary investment very worthwhile. After listening to the entire Keto Masterclass, I made a list of the changes that still needed to be made:
◦ Electrolytes (started on Day 314)
◦ Swap pecans, macadamias, and walnuts for cashews (then eventually greatly limiting even
those)
◦ Find ways to increase fat: avocados, coconut oil, dark chocolate, ghee (started immediately,
but once I started using Cronometer, it became immediately evident is that I had greatly
over-estimated how much fat I was and should be eating. So started cutting back again.
◦ Remove all cheese (started immediately)
◦ Weigh food & track macros (started Day 322)
◦ Know when to eat my meals (started Day 330)

Day 308: Started Keto-Mojo testing – I was in light ketosis from the very first test.

Day 310: Joined The Healthy Rebellion. Have just mostly lurked there, reading the posts and exploring the resources in the Vault.

Day 323: Realized I wasn’t eating nearly enough protein, so started increasing it.

Day 343: Started DDF and measuring blood sugar. Also cut back to 2 meals per day – waiting longer to eat in the morning, and then eating my second meal in the late afternoon before I teach. This means I’m also doing intermittent fasting of 16-18 hours each day. After making this change, I pretty quickly saw an improvement in my sleep, and have noticed that I no longer have any desire to take a mid-day nap.

After about 2 weeks of DDF (two meals a day with IF), I have noticed that everything feels better, except that my blood sugar numbers did not keep trending down. They didn’t necessarily go up (or at least not very much—the highest number I’ve ever seen since testing was 110), but waiting to hit my target before eating wasn’t working with my work-forced mealtimes. I decided I might benefit from tracking a different metric, so I researched ketone breath monitors and ordered a BioSense monitor.

Day 363: Started BioSense breathing ketone monitor. Stopped checking blood sugar, but kept
the meal timing.

My estimate of my starting weight is somewhere between 325-350 lbs. My best guess-timate of my current weight is in the 260-275 range. But that really is a guess, because I have not, to this day, weighed or measured myself, and I don’t intend to do either until my body arrives at the destination that it, and my brain, are comfortable with. While seeing the numbers decreasing would be inspiring, any lack of progress could also derail me. I know where I stand by the way my clothes fit, and my increasing mobility.

Using non-emotionally-charged numbers like ketones help reassure me that I’m in a good zone, but I’m hoping to not get obsessed with them in any way – particularly if it’s true that light-to-moderate ketosis is best for weight loss.

And now from the Where-To-Go-From-Here desk: Now that I have my food and eating (as well as sleep, meditation, stress levels) pretty much dialed in, my main focus for the next few months is going to be movement.

As a ballet teacher, I know and understand movement very well, so knowledge isn’t going to be an issue. But I’m dreading this, because moving means pain, which reminds me of how out of shape and far from my goals I am. But I do know that there’s lots of room for tiny improvements, and each of those will help me lose weight, which will, in turn, hopefully mean less pain. And movement also means increased endorphins, which should help with motivation.

Written by: Janet

Wednesday, November 18, 2020

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Off-Gassing, BJJ Safety, Bone Broth and SIBO | THRR056

Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:00:58 GMT

Healing The Gut While Breastfeeding, Bone Broth and SIBO, Off-Gassing, BJJ Safety, Peepee and Athletes Foot

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Energy Requirement Is Higher During Weight-Loss Maintenance in Adults Consuming a Low- Compared with High-Carbohydrate Diet

1. Healing the gut while breastfeeding [11:29]

Kelli says:

Any recommendations for healing leaky gut and dysbiosis while breastfeeding? It seems like every protocol notes not ideal for breastfeeding (I am guessing because of potential toxin release in breastmilk). It’s a difficult crossroads – do you eat things that support breastfeeding (fruits, vegetables, some starches) even though they cause digestive issues (bloat, distention, indigestion) and possibly making the situation worse (anemia due to malabsorption, overgrowth, worsening of leaky gut), or do you eliminate and try to heal which may release toxins? What about a carnivore or GAPS style diet, is that too extreme? Wouldn’t healing the gut ultimately provide better nutrition via breastmilk to the baby and provide better gut flora? Not to mention, it’s hard to support a child when you feel so off.

2. Bone Broth and SIBO [14:52]

Suzanne says:

Hi you two!

I hope you’re both doing well, and enjoying your life down in Texas.

I have one question regarding bone broth. I think that Chris Kresser posted something on Facebook some time ago about bone broth not being something to eat if you have sibo. I can’t find the article now, but while I used to drink bone broth regularly, either as part of a meal, a base for soup, or just as a hot beverage in the morning, I’m now not sure if it’s okay for me. I had a really bad gut infection almost 8 years ago. I started my 1st Whole30 for 100 days about a month later. I lost about 35 lbs., but the weight started coming back on while eating and exercising the same way. The doctor at the time had me tested for sibo. It came back positive, and regardless of the rounds of antibiotics, or the rounds of other supplements after, I’m still testing positive. I stopped drinking bone broth a few months ago, but miss it. I always made sure I had plenty of ball jars of both beef and chicken bone broths in my freezer, but now I’m not sure. Robb, in your opinion and with all of the research you do, should I stay away from bone broth? I haven’t seen you address this before, but it certainly could be that I just missed it.

Thanks very much,

Suzanne

3. Off-Gassing [22:24]

Shelly says:

How much should I be concerned about off-gassing in furniture, beds/mattresses, and other household items? Is it something worth taking into account when buying new furniture and stuff?

https://www.lung.org/clean-air/at-home/indoor-air-pollutants/carpets

“As with any building product, if purchasing new carpet, choose a carpet that releases fewer VOC emissions. Request that the carpet is unrolled and aired out in a well-ventilated area (a clean, dry warehouse, for example) for 72 hours before installation. If possible, have carpet installed while the space is unoccupied. Request the use of glues or adhesives that are non-toxic and low VOC. Then allow 72 hours of ventilation before inhabiting the space. Make sure the carpet can be removed later without use of toxic chemicals.”

4. BJJ Safety [29:35]

John says:

Hey Robb, I regularly practice BJJ 3-4 times a week and really enjoy it. Recently I read a story about a guy named Sean Entin who apparently had a stroke after suffering a tear in his carotid artery while being choked during a BJJ practice. Looking around the web, I found a fair number of other people who appear to have suffered something similar. I asked my doctor about this and he didn’t know what BJJ was and wasn’t able to really tell me anything. I’m starting to wonder if getting choked over and over is unsafe. I don’t want to quit but I am now very paranoid that something awful is going to happen and its getting hard to get back on the mats. I was just wondering if you had ever heard of this or had any thoughts on whether BJJ was generally safe?

https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/8660482/sean-entin-life-choke

https://bjjpassion.com/is-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-safe/#:~:text=BJJ%20is%20safe.,37.3%20per%201000%20athlete%20exposures.

BJJ is safe. The average injury rate is 36.1 per 1000 athlete exposures and it’s the lowest in martial arts. BJJ injury rate is also slightly lower compared to more common sports like football – 37.3 per 1000 athlete exposures.

Most injuries are caused by 3 reasons:

Tapping too late
Performing a move which hurts yourself
Sparring with a guy you should avoid

5. Peepee and Athletes Foot [45:10]

Eric says:

hey allihoopa! (dumb and dumber famous end scene)

5’10”

175 pounds

jacked

tanned

brown eyes

this morning i couldnt sleep so i woke up and got behind the keyboard when it dawned on me.. pee in a bowl and soak your toes to help get rid of your athletes foot! cuz why not? so i did.. then i decided to make it my snapchat story, (cuz why not). but then after it was too late, i decided to google if its even effective in the treatment and the first thing that comes up is esentially, no.. no it does not. i guess there isnt enough urea in peepee to make a dent. whoops! now i’m THAT guy.. i wonder though how accurate that article would be considering it was mostly referring to shower peepee. mine was in a bowl and i let it soak for like 20+ minutes. please help me to redeem myself and tell me what i did is effective in the treatment of my filthy disgusting toe jam. ps- love the podcast! been listening since episode 1, and loved both your books, AND you.. i love YOU robb

kisseZ

: )

Sponsor:

Transcript:

Download a transcript of this episode here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with the bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.

Robb: How are you?

Nicki: Waiting for you to jump in with the intro line.

Robb: Both of us were. Nobody wanted to step into this pool.

Nicki: Long, awkward pause at the beginning of another episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio.

Robb: Indeed.

Nicki: Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. I think this episode is releasing the day after Thanksgiving. I hope everyone had the best Thanksgiving one could have in 2020.

Robb: As in, they didn’t get poisoned by the bird, the house didn’t burn down, and all the rest of it.

Nicki: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Robb: Yep.

Nicki: Obviously we’re recording this in advance of Thanksgiving, but we’re gearing up for a two hound household here. We’re going to be watching a friend’s Ridgeback puppy. I guess she’s still-

Robb: Puppy, puppy. She’s still a puppy.

Nicki: … technically a puppy. She’s seven months old, I think.

Robb: She’s like an adolescent, yeah.

Nicki: Yeah. For a week while they are out of town for Thanksgiving, so it’ll give us a chance to try on the-

Robb: Two-dog household.

Nicki: … two-dog household and see how it goes.

Robb: I think a two-dog household would work great for you. You just will be three women, two dogs, and no husband.

Nicki: I almost had that situation with a one-dog household when I brought home Dutch, but-

Robb: It was a near miss. It was a near miss.

Nicki: Yes. Let’s see here. I’m just going to run through some of our upcoming events inside The Healthy Rebellion. Thursday, December 3rd is our virtual holiday party, so we’re gearing up for that. Then Saturday, December 5th, we are going to … Chef Eva Bee is going to host the Holiday App Board Gone Wild, appetizer board. So that will be another fun event coming up here in a couple weeks. Several live chats, usually weekly inside The Healthy Rebellion. And then we’re going to do something fun the first week of January. We’re going to do a seven-day cold exposure challenge.

Nicki: One of our rebels is going to help us lead that, so that will be a fun one. And then our Rebel Reset will kick off on the 15th of January. So lots of fun stuff happening inside The Healthy Rebellion community. If you haven’t joined yet and you want to take part in any and all of these things, just go to Join.TheHealthyRebellion.com, and we’d love to have you.

Robb: It’s a good time.

Nicki: It’s a good time. Let’s see. Any other housekeeping items, hubs, before you jump into your news topic?

Robb: No. Being the good husband that I am, I’ve done all the housekeeping.

Nicki: Oh my goodness gracious. And you’re not lying.

Robb: Somebody posted in The Rebellion the other day. They were complaining about, she cooked this meal for her husband, and he didn’t like it, and she was like, “Well, what do you want? I don’t really care.” So she cooked something else for him, and then he was nitpicking that. Which you never nitpick my stuff, but I was like, “What is this black magic, females cooking in the house?” And she was like, “Yeah, I have the same notion around males cooking in my house.” So aces in their places.

Nicki: Aces in their places.

Robb: You do A level food, but it is like a bomb has gone off in the kitchen, and it’s one meal, and then we’re done.

Nicki: And it stresses you out.

Robb: It doesn’t … Well, what stresses me out is the impact on the local environment, the floor and the fauna.

Nicki: Jeez.

Robb: And the time investment would make it-

Nicki: Yeah, you-

Robb: … possibly preclusive to have you cook all the meals.

Nicki: You like things to be very time expedient. And I’m not faulting that. That’s great. And also-

Robb: Oh, trust me, I’ve tried to figure out ways of just making cooking and washing the dishes an escape from the rest of my life, but you only have so much of that to deal with.

Nicki: Maybe we should move along from this topic.

Robb: Maybe we should, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: What do you have for us for our news topic today?

Robb: Ken Ford shot me this one. Energy requirements are higher during weight loss maintenance in adults consuming a low compared to high carbohydrate diet. And this is one of these super contentious topics in the diet wars. Is there a thermic benefit or a caloric benefit to going low carb? And this study suggest that that may be the case, that it costs us more energy when we go into a low carb diet versus a high carb diet, particularly in the weight loss kind of scenario. The effect size is modest. It’s not like 1,000 calories. And I forget even what the total caloric load was, but non-trivial, it could add up.

Robb: But something that I’ve talked with a lot of folks ranging from Ken Ford to Tyler and Luis and a host of other people, and just observationally, I think that there’s a time course to this. In the beginning, when, say, somebody shifts from a standard American diet to a low carb diet, I do think that there’s kind of this interesting window where it feels like you can eat anything you want, and you still lose weight, and everything just works wonderfully. And it may be that some people maintain something like that long term. But what we’ve noticed is that when people eat a minimally processed, largely whole food based, low glycemic, low diet, their energy needs appear to be less than what the label value would assume.

Robb: I remember the first person who put this on my radar was actually Greg Glassman, and this was ages ago, and he encouraged people to follow a high fat zone type diet, which at the end of the day ends up being 20% protein, 15, 20% carbs, and then the remainder fat, so about 60%. Not quite ketogenic, but when you consider the activity level of folks doing CrossFit type stuff, it probably is intermittently ketogenic. But anyway, he observed that people seemed to run about 20 to 30% fewer calories that what you would normally assume using standard basal metabolic rate calculators and caloric calculators.

Robb: And Tyler and Luis and myself, we’ve just kind of seen that clinically working with people. And oftentimes, when folks arrive, say, over at Ketogains, or when they do one of our resets and we recommend that they put their numbers through one of the approved calculators, they’re kind of shocked by how few the calories are that are recommended for weight loss. But that’s based off what we find is working for people, and we’re not seeing people just getting crushed with thyroid issues and different things, I think in large part because the protein is adequate and the general nutrition is adequate.

Robb: But it’s an interesting topic. And again, these effect sizes are modest, and it’s taken decades to get this study done. I don’t think we will ever see a study that susses out the potential that long term keto adaptation … Well, actually, it wouldn’t be that hard to just put people who are long term keto adapted into a metabolic ward type setting and see what their actual energy costs and needs are. And if there is some truth to that, you should be able to find that. So that actually could be reasonably easily done.

Nicki: Cool. And we will include the link to this paper in the show notes. And as always, the show notes are found at RobbWolf.com, and click on podcasts, and then click on the episode that you are interested in, and you’ll find all the show notes there.

Robb: Well, aren’t you just a helpful little gal.

Nicki: I just realized that some people might not know where to find the show notes.

Robb: Oh, good call. Good call.

Nicki: All right. It’s ready for our T-shirt review winner. This one this week goes to Striking Things. “You’re not alone. When I had enough of being a 250 pound blob in 2013, I started binging a few select podcasts on the paleo template, and I made sure to listen to each one. I might have been listener number seven, but I listened to every episode thanks to cross country drives. Robb’s guidance helped me shed 60 pounds in seven months. Now with the current craziness, I feel so alone in my questions and skepticism until I hear Robb get a little salty, and then I feel less alone and a little more grounded. Quality content from quality people.”

Robb: That’s very nice.

Nicki: Striking Things, thank you so much for your review. Shoot us over an email to Hello@RobbWolf.com with your T-shirt size and your mailing address, and we’ll send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio T-shirt.

Robb: Cool.

Nicki: And this episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Joovv. Joovv red light therapy devices can help reduce pain and inflammation, improve sleep, help rejuvenate your skin, and boost your libido. Eating a whole, unprocessed diet, prioritizing good sleep, doing smart strength training, and minimizing stress, and getting lots of healthy light with red light therapy like Joovv is key to living an optimal life. Joovv is the leading brand when it comes to red light therapy devices. They pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in home use.

Nicki: Joovv just launched their next generation of devices. They’re sleeker, they’re lighter, and the new devices include some really cool new features, like recovery plus mode, which utilizes pulsing technology to give yourselves and extra boost to recovery from a tough workout with rejuvenating near infrared light. Now is the time to get your Joovv red light therapy device, and for a limited time, Joovv wants to hook you up with an exclusive discount on your first order. Go to Joovv.com/Robb. That’s J-O-O-V-V dot com, slash R-O-B-B. And you can use code R-O-B-B to your qualifying order. And Robb, we’ve seen a lot of success.

Robb: Yeah. I mean, Joovv is an outstanding product, and we definitely are seeing folks benefit from a whole host of bio immuno modulatory activities, and it’s an exciting time that we have access to stuff like this.

Nicki: Awesome. All righty. Let’s jump into our first question for today. This one comes from Kelly, and the topic is healing the gut while breastfeeding. She asks, “Are there any recommendations for healing leaky gut and dysbiosis while breastfeeding? Seems like every protocol notes not ideal for breastfeeding, and I’m guessing because of potential toxin release in the breast milk. It’s a difficult crossroads. Do you eat things that support breastfeeding, fruits, vegetables, and some starches, even though they cause digestive issues, bloat, distension, and indigestion, and possibly making the situation worse? Anemia due to malabsorption, overgrowth, worsening of leaky gut. Or do you eliminate and try to heal, which may release toxins? What about a carnivore or GAPS style diet? Is that is that too extreme? Wouldn’t healing the gut ultimately provide better nutrition via breast milk to the baby and provide better gut flora? Not to mention, it’s hard to support a child when you feel so off.”

Robb: This is a really good question, and so if we want to go dig around on randomized control trials, I don’t know that we’re going to find much. I tried to find something looking at this even very peripherally. There is not a study that exists where women who were diagnosed, say, with SIBO or something, and are breastfeeding, underwent, say, a GAPS diet and followed a standard American diet to see how things played out. That stuff doesn’t happen. The pregnancy and breastfeeding thing, that ends up being, I wouldn’t say a catch-all, but it’s one of those moments where caution seems to make sense generally, and also it’s a fantastic cover your ass position, because pregnancy and breastfeeding is a pretty powerful-

Nicki: Critical time period.

Robb: … critical time and all that type of stuff. As always, I’m left a little bit flummoxed that improving one’s health is ultimately going to be a problem. And if there is some sort of intestinal permeability … The whole notion of, quote, toxins, we need to be really … What are we talking about there? Endotoxemia from lipopolysaccharide going through the gut and getting into circulation? Is that what we’re concerned about? A potential fungal die off? I guess there’s some things like that. But I don’t see that there would be a problem if someone just made a general shift towards those foods that don’t seem to worsen GI complaints, gas, bloating, discomfort.

Robb: As always, everything pregnancy, breast feeding, Lily Nichols and all of her work. I can’t recommend her enough, and I have all of her books and follow her blog posts pretty closely. She hasn’t specifically addressed this to my knowledge, but those could be some really solid resources to check out.

Nicki: Does Lily have a podcast of her own?

Robb: I’m not totally sure. I know that she goes on other folks’ podcasts, and she may in fact have her own podcast, yeah.

Nicki: She might be one to do a Salty Talk deep dive with.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Maybe we can circle back and ask some of these questions.

Robb: Yep. Yep.

Nicki: Okay. Our next question is on bone broth and SIBO from Susanne. She says, “Hi, you two. I hope you’re both doing well and enjoying your life down in Texas. I have one question regarding bone broth. I think that Chris Kresser posted something on Facebook some time ago about bone broth not being something to eat if you have SIBO. I can’t find the article now, but while I used to drink bone broth regularly, either as part of a meal, a base for a soup, or just as a hot beverage in the morning, I’m now not sure if it’s okay for me. I had a really bad gut infection almost eight years ago.”

Nicki: “I started my first Whole30 for 100 days about a month later. I lost about 35 pounds, but the weight started coming back on while eating and exercising the same way. The doctor at the time had me tested for SIBO, and it came back positive. And regardless of the rounds of antibiotics or the rounds of other supplements after, I’m still testing positive. I stopped drinking bone broth a few months ago, but I miss it. I always made sure I had plenty of Ball jars of both beef and chicken bone broths in my freezer, but now I’m not sure. Robb, in your opinion and with all of the research you do, should I stay away from bone broth? I haven’t seen you address this before, but it certainly could be that I just missed it. Thanks very much. Susanne.”

Robb: No, we definitely haven’t tackled this specifically. With our oldest daughter, Zoe, we are seeing what appears to be kind of a histamine intolerance, or what we suspect is a histamine issue. And the kids love making soup, and soup is easy, and so we love doing that, but we’ve also noticed that if she gets one exposure to a really good bone broth based soup, she’s okay. If we do that for dinner, and then also for breakfast, then we start seeing things kind of flare up. And the histamine part is a little bit different than the SIBO, but I was looking back through Aglaee Jacob’s book-

Nicki: Digestive Health.

Robb: … Digestive Health with REAL Foods, which is, again, an outstanding book. And she made this case that the symptoms that pop up, the problems that pop up, oftentimes we will focus on one item, and we’ll say, “Oh, it must have been the bananas, or it must have been this, must have been that.” But it may have been serial exposures to things that kind of pop you up and get you over the top on this stuff. And it’s interesting when you look at the GAPS protocols and different things like that, they oftentimes have recommended bone broth, because of the glycine content and the ability to heal the intestinal wall, and actually addressing that issue.

Robb: But I could also see where some of the constituents in bone broth could potentially feed SIBO, I guess, although that tends to be more of a carbohydrate-driven issue, but it kind of depends. The point to all this is that I don’t know that this needs to be a 100% binary deal, yes or no. It could be a thing where you do bone broth some days, not all days, and then you do it with an eye towards what are the other potential problematic items that are in the mix? And just as an aside, my gut health has improved over time. Moving to Texas has actually been good for it. It generally is better.

Robb: It get much more sun, and the heat and everything seems to be pretty good for it. But I’ve never tested positive for SIBO. I’ve never tested positive for any goddamn thing, any of the gut testing for anything other than ages ago when I was positive for ulcerative colitis, and I’m no longer positive for that. But there’s still clearly something there, and I don’t do well with fiber. I don’t do well with raw fruits and vegetables, particularly if they’re very fibrous. So I’ve kind of migrated towards a bit more of a carnivore-esque type approach.

Robb: But I just throw that out there that the testing is helpful, but it doesn’t always tell us everything. I clearly still have something going on, or maybe it’s just the way that things are. Given that I was on tetracycline from the age of 13 to 21 for acne, and I had a vaginal birth but wasn’t breastfed, you add up all this stuff. My mother had autoimmune and gut issues. I’ve had multiple exposures to Giardia as a baseline, to say nothing of just getting food poisoning while traveling at various points. I don’t know what that baseline is, and I don’t know that any amount of testing … I’ve worked with everybody. I’ve shaken down Ruscio, and Kresser, and other folks that are very smart but less well known than those guys, and we’ve run the full gamut, and nothing diagnostically really pops up. So-

Nicki: I’m wondering, Susanne, how you feel.

Robb: Right.

Nicki: I know you’re still testing positive, but do you feel significantly better now that you’ve stopped drinking the bone broth, and just in general? Because I’d be curious to know if you’ve noticed an improvement, and then if you reintroduce it, because you haven’t had it for several months now, if you reintroduce it just to see how you feel. To Robb’s point, maybe it’s something that you have once or twice a week if you tolerate it, and if you notice after trying it again that you don’t feel as well, then maybe it’s something that you just leave off.

Robb: Yeah. And on the weight loss side, and I learned this from hanging out with Tyler and Luis. I would get back in and recalculate macros on that, and I would probably use the Ketogains calculator. And it’s not that you have to eat a keto ratio specifically, but man, folks over estimate. The seat of the pants stuff, people overeat on it, and not infrequently. They under eat protein, which then leaves them a little bit snacky, and then they overeat other things. So in addition to all the rest of this stuff, I would really just get in and recalculate macros, and weigh and measure your food for a bit.

Nicki: Really focus on your protein. And I know we’ve said this before, but every single one of our Rebel Resets inside The Healthy Rebellion, when we talk about protein and people actually weight and measure the protein, they are usually-

Robb: Floored by how much they were under eating.

Nicki: … floored by how much more protein they actually need. And then they’re floored again when they realize the difference that it makes in both how they feel and the results that they get.

Robb: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a lot, but I would honestly tackle this first from Nicki’s recommendation of just how are you generally feeling, and kind of playing to that based around how frequently you might put the bone broth in, and then I would definitely get in and recalculate the macros and make sure that, if the goal is weight loss, that you’re in some sort of a mild caloric deficit, 10%, something like that. And it’s probably going to be less than what you’re eating currently. I’ll just about bet the farm on that. And again, to Nicki’s final point, we never, ever, literally never have folks that we work with or that are part of these resets, that have struggled with weight loss in the past, that were eating adequate protein. Never. Yeah.

Nicki: Okay. Our next question is from Shelly on off-gassing. She says, “How much should I be concerned about off-gassing in furniture, beds, mattresses, and other household items? Is it something worth taking into account when buying new furniture and stuff?”

Robb: I think that this is a legit concern. Depending on where you live and what time of the year, Reno was kind of cool. We did a house remodel, and we tried to do the lowest VOC, volatile organic compound stuff that we could find, but you could still smell it. But we were fortunate in that this all went down at a time of year where we just opened up all of the doors and windows. We had this thing called a whole house fan that is a fan you install up in the ceiling that runs through the attic, and it pulls high volume, low velocity air through the house.

Nicki: Where you open your windows, and so it sounds like an air plane engine.

Robb: And it’s just-

Nicki: Well, it’s not that loud, but it sucks the air from are outside, pulls it through the house up into the attic, and it cools the attic, but it helps get that air flow.

Robb: It massively circulates the air. I suspect that the total volume of air in the house probably turns over once every 30 minutes or something. And if you think about it, if we generally have our doors and windows closed, when do you really turn over the total volume of air in your house? Virtually never. The doors are barely open. God, in Texas, with the bugs here, it’s like a military insertion.

Nicki: That is the negative of living in Texas.

Robb: That is a negative of … It’s like a military insertion. Like, “Okay, kids. Ready? Go. Go, go, go, go.” And you open the doors and try to run out, and you still have 12 flies and mosquitoes fly in.

Nicki: When we have other kids come over and they open the door, and they’re-

Robb: They’re just lolly gagging in the doorway, yeah.

Nicki: … just lolly gagging, and I’m just freaking out because I feel like every single bug is coming in the house.

Robb: Well, then we’re just on bug murdering mode after that.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: So this is something from Lung.com, which is the American Lung Association of … Well, American Lung Association, and it’s talking about indoor air pollutants/carpets. As with any building product, if purchasing new carpet, choose a carpet that releases fewer VOC emissions. Just as an aside, manufacturers really vie for attention on this. It’s like, “Oh, our product is low VOC,” and they have documentation around that. Tends to cost a little bit more, but not always. And this is some additional stuff. Request that the carpet be unrolled and aired out in a well-ventilated area for 72 hours prior to installation.

Robb: I think that might be a big ask for carpet installers, but if you could do it, it might be possible. If possible, have carpet installed while the space is unoccupied. Request the use of glues or adhesives that are nontoxic and low VOC. Then allow 72 hours of ventilation before inhabiting the space. Make sure the carpet can be removed later without use of toxic chemicals, which I’m not too sure about that. The case was made for hardwood floors, tile situations where you could get a natural fiber rug to fill in spaces. I think that stuff’s all great. Our family is in kind of a mode right now where we are deeply, deeply missing having carpet in the living room.

Nicki: We are. It’s so sad.

Robb: We don’t watch a lot of TV, but every once in a while, you just kind of want to flop and watch something-

Nicki: And stretch on the floor.

Robb: … and stretch. And we like to watch some jiu-jitsu videos and everything. And cry me a river, very first world problems, but we just have hardwood. A carpet isn’t that same kind of spongy feeling of being able to stretch out on the floor and just lay down and relax. And so I think it is, under some circumstances, really compelling for just your quality of life and all that. So I think it does make sense to do mitigating strategies. If you get something new, maybe try to do it at a … Again, I don’t know where Shelly lives. If she lives in some really mild climate, she might be able to open the doors and windows at any time.

Robb: And then even though Nicki hates box fans, you go get a couple of cheap box fans and you stick them in the windows, and you set them up in a strategic way where one is blowing in and one is blowing out. And again, you can turn the volume of air over in a space rather quickly. And heck, if you’re a total cheapskate, just leave the price tags on the goddamn things-

Nicki: Oh, jeez.

Robb: … and use them for a couple of days, and then take them back if you don’t feel like you need them, or if you’re like Nicki and you hate the box fan. But I do think that it’s-

Nicki: Box fans have their purpose and their place. The reason why I hated them is because you would always put one in the doorway to our bedroom, and I couldn’t go in and out of the bedroom without tripping over a box fan.

Robb: And why was I doing such a prick move?

Nicki: Because you were trying to pull the air from the living room where the wood stove was and heat up the master bedroom because I was cold. And so, yes, I thank you for that.

Robb: What a bastard. What an absolute bastard. Gosh. Trying to take that too hot living room and normalize that heat into the far too cold bedroom. What an absolute prick.

Nicki: Yeah. Okay.

Robb: So any unattached middle aged females that are looking for someone who cooks, cleans, and other things.

Nicki: And loves box fans.

Robb: And loves box fans, find me over at Tinder at dasrobbwolf.

Nicki: Oh, man. And who doesn’t like dogs.

Robb: I like dogs. I just like other people’s dogs better than our dogs.

Nicki: Really?

Robb: No.

Nicki: No. No, no, no.

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BluBlox

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These are my favorite blue light glasses—this sale is an awesome time to give them a try! Blue light blunts your melatonin production so popping on a pair of these blue/green light blocking glasses in the evening is a total game changer for your sleep. Plus, free and fast shipping on all orders over $100. These glasses will also make epic Christmas presents!

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Dates: 11/23 to 12/1/2020

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Happy Holidays, Folks!

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Smoking vs Weight Loss | Salty Talk 025 | THRR

Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:41:45 GMT

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

SHOW NOTES:

https://www.mdedge.com/familymedicine/article/28906/health-policy/five-models-assess-readiness-change-behaviors

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5636087/

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/222S/4863393

This Salty Talk had two main inspirations: When we posted an image on IG saying “Make your health an act of rebellion” we were taken to task as being “ableist.” Right around this time a new member here mentioned that in her RD program, the professors suggested it is generally not recommended to talk to people about weight loss as “most people do not succeed and it just makes them feel bad about themselves.”

I’ve noodled on this a lot and a few things struck me: A doctor would NEVER take the position that folks should not try to stop smoking. It’s bad for them, society etc, has low success, but yet, still, we try. We MUST try.

Why not with weight loss?

There is an interesting double standard emerging here, one that (IMO) is an outgrowth of what we might call “woke” culture. I suspect some of this positioning started from a place or compassion and concern…it’s NOT ok to run people down about their weight (political affiliation is apparently open season!) but this is presented as if there is no cost associated with doing nothing for health regarding weight. If someone is on fire, do we not say or do something as it may hurt their feelings?

How about infectious disease? We can dictate all manner of behavior change, really do some epic virtue signaling around that, all in the pursuit of “saving lives” and “not overwhelming the medical system.” Close to a half million Americans die every year from obesity related problems. And do you know why our medical system is ALWAYS tettering on the brink (and has been well before COVID)? It’s due to largely preventable, obesity related issues. AND smoking.

I’m not sure what the perfect answer is to all this, likely looking for readiness for change is an important way to triage and allocate resources. Folks who are ready to change are relatively easy to help. But if there is no will, there is literally, no way. All that said, doing this ridiculous mental gymnastics of suggesting there are no reasonable bounds for an average human to live, is not just mean, it is homicidal. If a planet cannot be “healthy at any temperature” then a human cannot be “healthy at any size.”

How ethical is it to know there is something that can be done to help a person, yet we make platitudes to make this information and motivation unavailable?

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Transcript:

Coming very soon…

Bean Protocol, Managing Bipolar, TRT and Autophagy | THRR055

Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:00:34 GMT

Newborn Nutrition; mTOR, TRT & Autophagy; What the Beans?!!; Type 2 Diabetic BJJ Recovery; Managing Bipolar

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

A Review on the Serum Electrolytes and Trace Elements Role in the Pathophysiology of COVID-19

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12011-020-02377-4

1. Newborn Nutrition [15:13]

Nate says:

Robb and Nicki,

Thanks so much for this awesome podcast and content you put out. I picked up the habit of jogging/walking in the mornings due to quarantine and everything, and the podcast is the thing I look forward to listening to most.

Anyway, my wife and I are expecting our first baby in February (quarantine baby). I feel like I’ve learned how to navigate the marketing gimmicks and bull shit labels that the food industry puts on my food, but how do you translate that to a baby? I want to avoid being sitting ducks to the baby food marketing geniuses, and to the pamphlets I’m sure the doctors office is going to hand us about some type of baby food pyramid.

My wife plans on breastfeeding.

Main Questions:

How long would you recommend breast feeding, and is there a point where you incorporate real food in addition to breast feeding?

How soon can you introduce animal products? I saw some bone broth type baby food packs (I think either Robb or Diana Rodgers recommended it somewhere).

Extra Question if you have time:

Knowing what you know now, what is one thing you would do differently, or wish you did more of when your daughters were new borns (for baby nutrition, or otherwise)? Or some things that you did that worked particularly well? (I’ve already bought the baby sleep solution book you’ve recommended).

More info (if it is helpful):

The baby is a boy.

My wife and I are both healthy 34 year olds. Her mother will be with us through most of the breastfeeding phase (Nicki mentioned before that having someone to help with that would have been helpful). My wife is not keto, would an increase in electrolytes (specifically sodium) still be beneficial for milk production?

https://myserenitykids.com/

2. mTOR, TRT & Autophagy [23:46]

Carter says:

Thank you for answering the coffee question!! I tried a more expensive organic mycotoxin free coffee and had great success so THANK YOU.

My question now is if I’m on TRT injecting twice per week for a total of 100mg/week will I get any autophagy from fasting? I’d like to do a 3 day fast to help heal my nervous system and leaky gut. I’m just concerned that I may be in a constant anabolic state with high mTOR blocking autophagy. Thanks again Rob and Nikki

3. What the Beans?!! [28:51]

Brenna says:

Gutten Tag! from Minnesota. Have you heard of Karen Hurd the bean lady? As an RD I’d heard about her years ago from a client, and thought her protocol was nuts! (literally) And then I forgot about her until Mark Sisson wrote a post about her because Julie B. of PaleOMG is doing the protocol. So Mark’s post is nice and all, but he didn’t look too far into Karen’s biochem of why the protocol works. She is also very against saturated fat, especially coconut oil, and loves unsaturated fats. Im curious as to your thoughts on her protocol and understanding the physiology. And are our poops really supposed to float. I’d always been taught no.

Thanks from the land of 1000 lakes.

a few links:

https://tobemagnetic.com/expanded-podcast/2019/75

https://www.simplegoldlife.com/blog/karen-hurd-bean-diet

4. Type 2 Diabetic BJJ Recovery [36:15]

Matt says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

Love the show and your books. I have a question for your podcast. I’m a type 2, possibly type 1.5 diabetic. I dropped 45 pounds when I was diagnosed but it seems to be genetic in my family so is just getting worse not better even after the weight loss. Age 47, I do weights, cardio and yoga once or twice a week each. I’m a 4 stripe white belt in BJJ. I try to train 3-6 times a week in BJJ. After BJJ, particularly sparring (but sometimes just drilling) I get extreme soreness, to the point I struggle to sleep sometimes. I know about low intensity exercise, hot and cold etc for recovery but I’m in pain all the time. Am I just old or is my diabetes causing this by slowing my recovery?

I try to eat fairly low carb high protein. Probably around 2400 cal 100-150g carbs and 220+ g protein. Too many carbs really shoots my blood sugar up. I’m also sitting at a desk all day and more so in lockdown so not moving much other than mentioned before. I’m walking around the house now and wincing in pain when I get up or sit down. It sounds silly but this just doesn’t seem normal. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Matt

http://www.diabetes-book.com/

Type 1 Grit facebook group

5. Managing Bipolar [42:19]

Christy says:

Hi Robb,

I am a long time listener. I started reading and listening around 2011, when I switched to a paleo diet and saw improvements in my overall health.

I have bipolar 2 disorder without psychosis. I mostly deal with severe long term depression. Once every few years there’s some hypomania thrown in. The last episode was triggered by an SSRI due to a misdiagnosis.

There was one year—2012 or so— when I was stable and happy and off meds. I was eating a strict Paleo Solution diet and was working out, sleeping, and getting sunlight. I was doing everything by the book. I also didn’t have kids yet.

Since having kids, I have found it impossible to maintain the lifestyle as well as I need. Postpartum depression kicked my butt and sort of never left.

Standard treatment is mood stabilizers. Even lamictal, which is considered the “best” in terms of its low risk of side effects, is giving me vertigo, making me dumb, and making me feel like I have chronic morning sickness. I am gaining weight because I’m always hungry— something the doctors said wouldn’t happen. And no, I don’t normally struggle with my weight.

Aside from being militant about everything I mentioned earlier— sleep, exercise, diet, and sunlight— do you know of any specific protocols for managing bipolar off meds? Even the mention of this sends people into a tailspin, but it’s something I am really looking into.

You’ve been so helpful throughout the years. Thank you!

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Transcript:

Transcript coming soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

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Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

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Carnivore Evolution, Magnesium Sensitivity, Body Cells and Light | THRR054

Fri, 06 Nov 2020 15:15:34 GMT

Evolution of The Carnivore Diet, Issues on Keto Diet: Maybe Electrolyte Imbalance?, Weird Reaction To Beef & Lamb?, Do All Cells React to Light?, Electrolyte/Magnesium Sensitivity?

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

Please Subscribe and Review: Apple Podcasts | RSS

Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Obesity and disease tied to dramatic dietary changes

The ‘mismatch hypothesis’ argues that our bodies evolved to digest the foods that our ancestors ate, and that human bodies will struggle and largely fail to metabolize a radically new set of foods. This intuitive idea is hard to test directly, but the Turkana, a pastoralist population in remote Kenya, present a natural experiment: genetically homogenous populations whose diets stretch across a lifestyle gradient from relatively ‘matched’ to extremely ‘mismatched’ with their recent evolutionary history.

Enter the Turkana — a subsistence-level, pastoralist population from a remote desert in northwest Kenya. In the 1980s, an extreme drought coupled with the discovery of oil nearby led to rapid transformation of the region. Large segments of the population abandoned their nomadic lifestyle, some to live in villages and others in cities. Traditional Turkana still rely on livestock — dromedary camels, zebu cattle, fat-tailed sheep, goats, and donkeys — for subsistence, while Turkana living in cities have switched to diets that are much higher in carbohydrates and processed foods . This is a trend that is widely observed across the world, a result of increasing globalization, even in remote communities.

“We realized that we had the opportunity to study the effect of transitioning away from a traditional lifestyle, relying on almost 80% animal byproducts — a diet extremely protein-rich and rich in fats, with very little to no carbohydrates — to a mostly carbohydrate diet,” said Julien Ayroles, an assistant professor of ecology and evolutionary biology and LSI who is the senior researcher on the new paper. “This presented an unprecedented opportunity: genetically homogenous populations whose diets stretch across a lifestyle gradient from relatively ‘matched’ to extremely ‘mismatched’ with their recent evolutionary history.”

“But Turkana who had moved to cities exhibited poor cardio-metabolic health, with much higher levels of obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular illness and high blood pressure. The health metrics also showed that the longer Turkana had spent living in the city, the less healthy they tended to be, with life-long city dwellers experiencing the greatest risk of cardiovascular disease.”

1. Evolution of The Carnivore Diet [15:52]

Bradley says:

I love your podcast, I love the open minded science based approach towards diet and nutrition. I’m a graduate of Mark Sisson’s Primal Health Coaching course and am I huge nutrition nerd. I’ve tried vegetarian, vegan, and finally got amazing results from primal eating. I’ve always leaned more towards the low carb mainly animal product end of the spectrum on Primal and have been listening to carnivore podcasts almost exclusively for the past few months. I do have a comment that maybe you could help me understand. I bought The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino and I love the book and his points on plant self defense mechanisms and it makes sense. Maybe I missed something but if we evolved to become more animal based wouldn’t it also make sense that we’ve now evolved back to being able to eat some plants? Maybe there hasn’t been enough time for that evolution? Isn’t being able to drink milk without the gassy affects an evolution too though? I appreciate any insights

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence#:~:text=The%20first%20identified%20genetic%20variant,C%2FT*%E2%88%9213910.&text=Other%20alleles%20associated%20with%20lactase,T%2FC*3712%20in.

2. Issues on Keto Diet: Maybe Electrolyte Imbalance? [23:53]

James says:

Hello. My name is James and I am a 30 year old male and I live in Charlottesville, VA. I decided to meet with a functional medicine doctor/ nutritionist about 10 weeks ago. During my initial consultation I was at 188lbs with ~24% body fat. I also got my blood work done that I can send for reference. My goals are mainly focused on developing good nutrition habits to feel good and maintain a healthy body composition. I also had consisting gas/bloating issues. For the first 2 weeks I followed a paleo diet focused on getting adequate protein from meat sources (hand sized portion with lunch/dinner). I also followed intermittent fasting M-F eating from 12-8. For the next 6 weeks I practiced intermittent fasting during the week and followed a somewhat ketogenic diet ( 136g protien, 26g carbs, and 146g fat). During this time I was also taking magnesium supplement/ fish oil at night and vitamin D/ floramyces during lunch. I was also practicing CrossFit regularly about 5-6 times a week. At week 6 I did a long workout in the morning in a fasted state. Post workout I felt dizzy/weak and my legs were just cramping constantly. I was at the point where I felt like I was going to faint. My nutritionist said this was likely an electrolyte imbalance. He recommended and electrolyte supplement pre/post workout and increasing magnesium on training days. Also trying to eat low carb vegetables more to get natural sources of potassium. I did this and I am still having some issues. This past week I hav had some hot/cold sensations in legs/feet with some hamstring cramping. Yesterday I was tired of this feelings and I tried eating some fruit through carbs. This seemed to resolve my symptoms fairly quickly. Thinking about introducing carbs back into my diet. Right now down like 8 pounds but just want to feel a little more Normal again.

3. Weird Reaction To Beef & Lamb? [29:32]

Kim says:

Hi Nicki and Robb,

Your podcast and books are life savers. I am so, so grateful for what you do to educate! I had been vegan/vegetarian for years but after processing the grief from suddenly losing my mom I found myself completely depleted, losing my mind, and in extreme physical pain. Through tireless research on my own over the last 3 years I have found my way to thriving health by completely changing what I eat. I believe the years as a vegan almost killed me! From this whole experience I am acutely aware of how my body reacts to different foods. I have had to eliminate all estrogenic foods but now completely enjoy my new diet based on plenty of low carb green leafy vegetables, cruciferous vegetables, some types of seeds and nuts and of course pasture raised meats and eggs and wild caught fish. My question is about a weird reaction I have to beef and lamb. When I eat fish, chicken or pork I do fine but when I eat even the highest quality grass-fed beef or lamb I have the same reaction that I do to highly estrogenic foods, anxiety and hyper awake (sleep issues). Is there anything in the amino acid profile of beef and lamb that is substantially different from that of chicken and pork that could be causing this? Is there something I could eat along with beef and lamb to counteract this reaction in my body? Ideally I would like to eat be able to eat beef and lamb over pork and chicken so I need to figure this out. Any thoughts you have would be most gratefully received.

Thank you again for all that you do.

All the best,

Kim

4. Do All Cells React to Light? [36:25]

Mariessa says:

Hi, Robb!

Regarding the blue light glasses: the book Lights Out noted that all (many? More than just eyes) cells react to the light if I’m remembering correctly. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Mariessa

Circadian Clocks in Human Red Blood Cells

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3040566/

5. Electrolyte/Magnesium Sensitivity? [41:24]

I have found that if I have more than 1 packet of LMNT a day, I get a bit of digestive trouble probably due to the magnesium. I seem to be fairly sensitive to magnesium in all forms. Any tips?

Thank you for all that you do!

Sponsor:

Transcript:

Transcript coming soon…

Where you can find us:

Submit questions for the podcast: https://robbwolf.com/contact/submit-a-question-for-the-podcast/

Keto Masterclass

The keto diet is one of the most effective ways to shed fat and improve your health. Keto Masterclass helps you start keto right, step-by-step, so that you can be successful long-term.

Learn More

Don’t forget, Wired to Eat is now available!

Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, iBooks

Great Barrington Declaration | Salty Talk 024 | THRR

Wed, 04 Nov 2020 16:30:10 GMT

WARNING: These episodes may get “salty” with the occasional expletive.

SHOW NOTES:

Sponsor:

Transcript:

Download a copy of this transcript here (PDF)

Nicki: Welcome to the Healthy Rebellion Radio. This is an episode of Salty Talk, a deep dive into popular and relevant health and performance news pieces mixed with the occasional salty conversation with movers and shakers in the world of research, performance, health and longevity.

Nicki: Healthy Rebellion Radio Salty Talk episodes are brought to you by Drink LMNT, the only electrolyte drink mix that’s salty enough to make a difference in how you look, feel and perform. We co-founded this company to fill a void in the hydration space. We needed an electrolyte drink that actually met the sodium needs of active people, low-carb, keto and carnivore adherence without any of the sugar, colors and fillers found in popular commercial products. Health rebels, this is Salty Talk.

Nicki: And now the thing our attorney advises, the contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed, functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness change. And given that this is Salty Talk, you should expect the occasional expletive.

Robb: Are we really going to do this?

Nicki: Yeah, I’m just making sure that we’re set up the best way I know how.

Robb: Probably the best way to set this up is turn everything off and run away.

Nicki: Yeah, we’re screen recording a bunch of this, just different tabs that we have open. So for those of you who are members of the Healthy Rebellion, you’ll get to watch that video and kind of see some of the articles that we’re going to be talking about today, in today’s Salty Talk. But first, good morning, hubs.

Robb: Good morning, wife.

Nicki: We haven’t had a Salty Talk in a while.

Robb: No, we’ve been noodling on a lot of different potential topics. But it’s a moving target, which is kind of like the most… What’s the most pressing thing to try to have a discussion around? And what is the thing that’s least likely to get us 100% canceled?

Nicki: And what can we maybe bring some-

Robb: -And what can we actually affect some change with, yeah.

Nicki: … will be interesting to people and what might they want to hear us speak about? So today’s Salty Talk conversation is going to center around the Great Barrington Declaration, which this was posted by a member in the Healthy Rebellion back when it was originally signed, which for those of you not familiar with the Great Barrington Declaration, it’s a document that was signed and put forth on October 4th, of this year by a bunch of infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists. It’s gained signatures, let’s see what the current signature count is. Let’s see, there’s been over 607,000 concerned citizens have signed it. 11,649 medical and public health scientists, and over 33,000 medical practitioners.

Nicki: So this is, again, it was released on October 4th, and the main thing that it’s putting forward is that kind of some of the policies have been put in place for COVID-19. They feel like it’s doing more harm than good. And so they have something that they put forward called Focused Protection. And did you want me to read this?

Robb: It’s not long and it’s very well written. Yeah, might as well.

Nicki: All right. So I’ll read this for those of you who haven’t read it, and you’re just listening to the audio. That way you have some context for what we’re talking about today.

Robb: And then I would read the bios on the three primary folks that sponsored this.

Nicki: Okay, so the Great Barrington Declaration, “The Great Barrington Declaration, as infectious disease epidemiologists, and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. Coming from both the left and right and around the world, we’ve devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results, to name a few, include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health, leading to greater excess mortality in years to come with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden.

Nicki: Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice. Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed. Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than 1,000 fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms including influenza.

Nicki: As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all, including the vulnerable, falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity, i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable, and that this can be assisted by, but not dependent upon, a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

Nicki: The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at higher risk. We call this Focused Protection. Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19.

Nicki: By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures including approaches to multi-generational households can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Nicki: Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities such as sports should be resumed. Young, low-risk adults should work normally rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.”

Nicki: And it says on October 4th, 2020, “This declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States by Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations, Dr. Sunetra Gupta, a professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases, and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, a professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.”

Nicki: So those are the three primary authors. And then there are several co-signers. And then, like I said, the total concerned citizens plus medical and health and medical practitioners and scientists, total somewhere around 650,000 people.

Robb: Getting close to three quarters of a million people. So how to unpack all this, where to go with it in a way that actually provides some value? Clearly, we have kind of a bias or an orientation, this whole story. I think very early on, we were in the flatten-the-curve camp, and because people do listen to us with regards to health issues, took it really seriously, it was a pretty big deal wanting to try to get this stuff right.

Robb: But very quickly, things began not really making sense to me in the way that things were handled, in the constant goalpost moving in things as simple as, and we’ll talk about this near the end of this thing, which this thing may be the end of us too, but talking about masks, and what is the science behind masks? And why are there no standards if masks are so incredibly important, why are there no standards behind them? And that is in and of itself, apparently a controversial position to have. So clearly, we do have a bias or an orientation on this, maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong.

Nicki: I think our bias is just that we would like a nuanced conversation about all of this stuff, right?

Robb: That is one place. So as a beginning, I would say that we’re in a position of, it does not appear that the SARS-CoV-2-

Nicki: The original model that came out of the Imperial College of London that said 2 million people were going to die in the United States-

Robb: It was wrong is wrong.

Nicki: … is wrong.

Robb: It was wrong.

Nicki: But the measures that are still in place are as if this thing is far more deadly than it is and don’t get me wrong, people have died, it is deadly, but we have to look at the full cost analysis. So I don’t know which way you want to go here.

Robb: Yeah. No, that’s a great lead-in. And so when this first came out, I wanted to jump on it and tell people about it and talk about it. But learning a little bit over time, I guess, I thought, why don’t we wait and kind of see how this develops, see what type of criticisms are rolled out? And so let’s jump-

Nicki: And there have been… Yeah.

Robb: … into one of the critique pieces.

Nicki: Several criticisms.

Robb: So from MedPage Today, “Who are the scientists behind the Great Barrington Declaration? All three have advocated against lockdown measures since the start of the pandemic,” is the kind of headline there. And I want to throw this thought out there, again, is kind of a, I guess, a thought exercise. Right at the beginning of this story, say like March 10th, March 15th, there were people who were certain that this was the end of the world, that this was an extinction-level event, which if you had an infectious-disease agent that had a 30% infection, fatality rate, and good transmission, it could end society as we understand it, could end the human race, because of all the other knock-on consequences, food systems collapse, energy systems collapse, chaos ensues, the people who don’t die from the disease die from all the chaos and pandemonium that in arises from there. So you had people that were speculating that this was a species-extinction-level event.

Robb: And then there were other people that were saying that this isn’t that big of a deal, that this is probably being being overblown. And I don’t know that right at March 15th, either one of those kind of extreme positions really knew anything about what they were talking about. I don’t know that we really had enough information, or maybe some people did. Again, when we look at kind of the scientific community, what’s interesting when new ideas emerge in science, and we’ve talked about this with regards to the Manhattan Project, and Ignaz Semmelweis, there’s never consensus right out of the gate, that’s part of what the scientific process is, is that different people have different ideas, and then we have to share those ideas, and then see where the rubber hits the road.

Robb: And we’ve seen all manner of kind of suppression of the ability to discuss these topics. And I guess if this is… Is there anything else from this MedPage piece that you want to do dig into or mention?

Nicki: No, I mean-

Robb: They do mention that they were-

Nicki: This particular article is just trying to discredit these authors by saying that it was sponsored. The declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, which is a libertarian free-market think tank, part of a network of organizations funded by Charles Koch, a right-wing billionaire known for promoting climate change denial and imposing regulations on business. So clearly, because of that statement there, everybody should just take this Great Barrington Declaration and toss it, toss it to the wind, because-

Robb: Which Professor Gupta denies that.

Nicki: Right. Yeah. And we’ll get to some interesting stuff with her and what she’s been trying to do. There was a rebuttal that was originally published in The Lancet, that is now called the John Snow Memorandum, which apparently has now close to 7,000 scientists, researchers and healthcare professionals who have signed it. And this came out 10 days after, so this one was released on October 14th, and-

Robb: And this is not in reference to, “John Snow, you know nothing,” from Game of Thrones-

Nicki: From Game of Thrones, yeah.

Robb: … this is actually referring to a doctor who, very early on, used some epidemiology to establish the linkage between some infected cholera water sources in Great Britain and was able to basically track and isolate that and this was arguably kind of the the birthplace of epidemiology. So it’s a cool reference on the part of these folks talking about this because we have gained so much in many ways, particularly with regards to infectious disease by relying on strong epidemiological research for case tracking and whatnot.

Nicki: So these folks are basically saying that, what the scientists of the Great Barrington Declaration are putting forward, is flawed. Any pandemic management strategy report relying on immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed. Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risk significant morbidity and mortality across the whole population.

Robb: Which we have examples of that which suggest it’s not true, with Sweden, with places like South Dakota. I-

Nicki: Where cases are on the rise, but we’ll talk a little bit about that, too-

Robb: Case versus… Yeah.

Nicki: Because you have a thing in there about Sweden, right, that we’ll get to?

Robb: Yeah. And also, digging back in, I forgot to get a link to this specifically, but again, this is almost going back to the Paleolithic of the COVID pandemic. But we had this case of the Crown Princess cruise ship, which very early on, was an interesting natural experiment in which a group of people were on a contained world-

Nicki: Vessel.

Robb: A contained world with recycled air, very little mobility, a population that is typically not young or healthy-

Nicki: Older, obese.

Robb: Yeah, I mean, all the comorbidities, and there was some death, there was an illness, but it did not decimate, reduce by a 10th the population. And in fact, when you look back through what the numbers were from that scenario, and extrapolate it to the larger population, it’s pretty on-point, but yet this interesting natural experiment, which was dismissed completely out of hand in the beginning, and I guess, in some ways, rightfully so, because people would say, “Well, I don’t know if this represents the world at large.” And that’s maybe a valid point, but at the same time, it’s a really fascinating case study that has literally disappeared from the discussion. And I am hard-pressed to figure out why a natural experiment like this is not being used as some sort of a benchmark to just say, “Well, are the numbers higher than that? Lower than that? The same as that?”

Robb: And by the last time that I was looking at this, it looked very similar to this kind of Crown Princess story and it paints a picture that this is not nearly as dangerous as what we initially thought and, again, as we’re doing this, part of me, because of the… and we’ll get to this later, like the one of the reviews that we got on the podcast, for some people, even broaching these topics, it paints us as right-wing conspiracy theorists truthers, which that is such an ironic thing to call people, which is derogatory, but when we take this thing-

Nicki: You can’t question anything anymore.

Robb: Well, it’s not just that you can’t question anything, are we not hopefully moving towards the truth? And so if you weaponize the term, truth, for truthers, then it’s similar to if everybody’s a racist, then it’s impossible to distinguish what a real racist is. I mean, it just loses meaning, and if our goal isn’t to move towards truth, then what is it? I guess it’s just to roll over and accept whatever the dominant paradigm is, which seems to be more and more of kind of what we’re being shoehorned into. But the dominant paradigm doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s correct. Oftentimes, there’s pieces of it that are correct.

Robb: I mean, we still have the… There’s a new update on the saturated-fat guidelines that in a large and growing chunk of scientists suggesting that the American dietary guidelines basically remove any restriction on upper-saturated-fat intake, because the science just isn’t there. And we’ve had 50, nearly 60 years of consensus that we must at all cause limit saturated fat. And people will dismiss this, or like, “Well, that’s different. This is an infectious disease.” It’s like, cardiovascular disease is still the number one or number two killer in developed countries. So it’s still a very big deal, it will be a big deal, even once we get beyond this initial phase of whatever damage COVID imparts to our society.

Robb: So it’s something that we do need to get right. And we do need to have discussions around. And just because the consensus was A, doesn’t mean that the truth may not be B, and this is this whole need for having a discussion. And so this Great Barrington Declaration has received a good amount of shellacking online from the kind of established scientific community, it’s been banned in distribution on different social media platforms and whatnot. Things like, if you instant message somebody a link to it, it looks like your link went but then when you say, “Hey Charlie, did you get that link?” He’s like, “What link?” And so making it look like this stuff is distributable when it’s really not and banning accounts that are distributing it.

Nicki: One thing in this John Snow piece that’s kind of stuck out to me, is they say that, in criticizing Great Barrington Declaration, they say that prolonged isolation of large swathes of the population is practically impossible and highly unethical. So, instead we should prolong, isolate the entire population, right-

Robb: Seems to be the point they’re making.

Nicki: … so instead of… And then they also say, “Such an approach also risks further exacerbating the socio-economic inequities and structural discriminations already laid bare by the pandemic.” Which is happening now anyway, a lot of people who are pro extended lockdown, have nice white-collar jobs where they can work from home online and it’s not affecting their paycheck, whereas a lot of people, their work requires them to be in-person doing the work. And so, I mean, the inequalities already present here are huge.

Robb: So what’s interesting, both sides of this debate are saying that, say, like, people of color, and minorities and the poor are being disproportionately impacted. And both of them are claiming that their approach will mitigate that process. We need to have a discussion, and we need modeling. And we need to look at examples of where things have been done one way versus another way, and see what the real story is there. Because, and I think we will talk about this here in a little bit, we’re very lucky, we do not know anyone directly, that has died as a consequence of this. One of our friends in the Rebellion, she has a friend who lost both parents due to COVID. So this has absolutely impacted people. It’s terrible. We have not been directly affected by death. And we are very, very fortunate by that.

Robb: We know a lot of people that have lost businesses, are in the process of filing bankruptcy, are completely reshuffling their lives. And somebody may just say, “Well, that’s no big deal compared to dying.” I’m not even sure what to say in response to that. How many people commit suicide as a consequence of their life imploding? Losing businesses, a lot of these businesses are closing-

Nicki: Worked their whole life and you’re in your-

Robb: Sometimes multi generations.

Nicki: … 60s or early 70s and you have a restaurant that you’ve bled for your entire life and you’re getting ready to retire. And-

Robb: And it’s gone.

Nicki: And it’s gone.

Robb: And there don’t appear to be fantastic options out there. There’s discussions about universal basic income, and forestalling rent payments and whatnot. All of this leads into an absolutely catastrophic implosion of-

Nicki: Well, that’s already happening in Britain.

Robb: … society and the economy. Yeah. There’s examples of that in Great Britain. And again, we’re in a predicament, there is no good way out of this. But there’s no painless way out of this. But I don’t really feel like… And again, maybe this is just me, because I want things to go a particular way. I’m trying to argue for this in a direction that supports my background. But I have the sense that if kids are generally back in school, there’s all this discussion that there’s going to be a generation of women that are strip mined out of the workforce because of the childcare scenario. Like childcare nationally, I’m focusing a lot on the United States, US childcare has just imploded, it is virtually gone. And so all of the the the benefits and the progress that has been made bringing women into a more parity position in the workforce, it’s gone. And so that that sticky widget of the fact that women are part of the biological equation of humans that are saddled with growing a fetus, at least for right now, and birthing it and are kind of the, more often than not, the primary caregiver, they’re going to be disproportionately impacted in this.

Robb: We know for a fact that, again, poor and minorities are disproportionately impacted in this. I don’t get the sense though, I don’t understand how just massive comprehensive lockdowns and shuttering of, in particular, service-based businesses, is going to address any of that, when this is disproportionately the places that these poorer more minority-oriented folks end up working currently. I just don’t get that and I would love for somebody to explain to me how this works out favorably having a more austere kind of intervention versus a more nuanced intervention that could get these folks working more.

Robb: But we’ll shift to this Daily Mail piece which, yeah, the Daily Mail is just right on par with the National Enquirer, for the folks that are watching the video on this, the the list of links that they’ve gotten-

Nicki: On the side are just terrible.

Robb: … on the side are just like, “Holy Christ.”

Nicki: Terrible. But Professor Sunetra Gupta, one of the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, is talking about some of her experiences, and she says, as much in here, I don’t know where I would fine it.

Robb: Well, read the headline for it.

Nicki: A contagion of hatred and hysteria, Oxford epidemiologist, Professor Sunetra Gupta tells how she has been intimidated and shamed for backing shielding instead of lockdown. And in here, she says she’s first and foremost a scientist versus not somebody who’s normally in the focus of the media, “Of course, I do have deeply held political ideals, ones that I would describe as inherently left-wing. I would not, it is fair to say, normally align myself with the Daily Mail.”

Nicki: But she was went to participate in an interview seconds before they were to go on air. The producer said that they weren’t to talk about the Great Barrington Declaration. And she thought that was one of the main things that she would be speaking about during this interview. And she asked, “Why not?” And he said that, “Oh, our listeners won’t be familiar with that term. So you’re not to talk about that.” Then she was going to go on another national radio appearance, and… What did they say? They basically canceled at the last minute saying that her message was going to be a threat to the National Health. Here’s the quote, “Giving airtime to me would, ‘Not be in the national interest.'”

Robb: And give a little bit of background with Professor Gupta.

Nicki: Yeah, I mean, she helped create one of the therapeutics for coronavirus. Let me look, can we find that here? She has it… She’s concerned about the lockdown, leading to lower childhood vaccination rates. So she’s not what people would call fringe, even though that’s what the kind of dominant narrative folks are calling her and the other scientists who sign this, they’re calling them fringe.

Robb: And there clearly is kind of a, to some degree, a political divide on this topic. But what’s ironic is that Professor Gupta self describes as effectively kind of left wing, more or less a socialist, very into social programs. And she has been labeled an all right, fringe conspirator in this whole story. And this is how people are silenced. Again, where you just label the-

Nicki: They get labeled and then dismissed.

Robb: Because you disagree, you’re the dirtiest, nastiest possible entity on the face of the planet and there’s no… Let’s say that she’s totally wrong about all this stuff. Let’s say she’s wrong. Let’s say we are wrong. I would argue that the best way to deal with that is to have some pretty vigorous open debate, take things point by point. Like when I went through the Cowspiracy film, I went claim by claim, like-

Nicki: What the Health.

Robb: Or What the Health, yeah. I went claim by claim, minute by minute, “Okay, this is what they claim. This is my take on it. Here’s the stuff that they’re trying to claim as support. Here’s…” I don’t see hardly any of that. I do, ironically, more on the side of, “Here’s where these super onerous lockdowns are disproportionately impacting minorities and women,” and whatnot. But-

Nicki: She says she has been accused of not having the right expertise of being a theoretical epidemiologist with her head in the clouds. And she says, “In fact, within my research group, we have a thriving laboratory that was one of the first to develop an antibody test for the coronavirus and we were able to do so because we’ve been working for the past six years on a flu vaccine using a combination of laboratory and theoretical techniques. Our technology has already been patented and licensed and presents a rare example of a mathematical model leading to the development of a vaccine.”

Robb: And I’ll just throw this out there as a chemist, and my background was mainly synthetic organic chemistry, building molecules from scratch. There was a time where you basically went in the lab and you just kind of tinkered and you, to the best of your ability, you had a guess about the way that different structures went together. A ton of what goes into chemistry now, which is why there’s not a lot of organic synthetic chemists left other than like, making meth, is that you do a lot of this via computer, the computer modeling can go down a hundred, a thousand, a million different rabbit tracks, and give you the most likely solutions to go after, and it’s pretty goddamn good.

Robb: And so dismissing her as a theoretician with her head in the clouds. This is just so remarkable in the hubris and again, this is like straw-man character assassination stuff versus… And again, maybe she’s wrong, maybe this shit is wrong, but you don’t know that by just character assassination and dismissal. And again, we have two competing camps here that seemed to be making similar claims. And I would argue that the data is really coming out disproportionately on the side that a much more targeted approach, an approach that allows kids to go back to school that really focuses on looking strongly at protecting those who are most at risk. And we’ll get to a piece about diet and vitamin D here in a minute, but yet again, we’re almost a year into this fucking mess. And metabolic health is still barely even mentioned on either side of this debate, when we know that that’s, aside from age, that comorbidities are one of the primary drivers of whether or not this finishes poorly or well for people. The fact that this is such a non issue, that alone should give people pause in this whole thing.

Nicki: Yeah, I’m going to take a pause here and read our sponsor ad. This Healthy Rebellion Radio episode of Salty Talk is brought to you by Ned. If you’ve been feeling stressed or anxious. Who hasn’t these days?

Robb: Why on earth would we feel that?

Nicki: Geez, this is the best year ever. If you have any pain or you’ve been struggling with insomnia, I don’t know. Have insomnia rates up-ticked since March?

Robb: Since I’ve been using Profonol, it’s been fine, I’ve been sleeping for like six days straight, so.

Nicki: Isn’t that what Michael Jackson used?

Robb: Yes.

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Nicki: Okay, let’s jump over here to this next piece here, you’ve got a piece from NPR-

Robb: This is an NPR piece.

Nicki: … and it’s saying that studies point to a big drop in COVID-19 death rates.

Robb: So this is another piece of this whole story that is just profoundly disturbing and frustrating. We had this initial claim that the infection fatality rate was going to be 10 times greater than influenza or maybe 100 times greater than influenza. It doesn’t look like that was the case at all. We clearly had a lot of sick people, a lot of people died, places like Italy just got shellacked, they had a fairly aged population, a aged and potentially not particularly healthy population. We have not worked through all of that population in Western society. But what we have is nearly a year of working with folks and figuring out how to better treat them.

Robb: There have been some things discovered as simple as don’t put these people on a ventilator, make them lay prone instead, and that ended up saving their lives. Different mixes of over-the-counter pharmaceuticals and even some vitamin D and some zinc and vitamin C. There are studies going on constantly. But at the clinical intervention level, the improvement, will it go from patients in the study had a 25% chance of dying at the start of the pandemic, they now have a 7% chance of dying. So if we want to do our vegan number deal, then it’s like a 300% reduction in weight, which isn’t the proper way to portray that at all. But that’s a profound difference. And again, we are learning every day. We’re being told that cases are exploding, which again, this is this kind of revolving door-

Nicki: This is the crazy thing, because it seems like every media outlet, it’s just this case numbers are shooting up in South Dakota man, they shouldn’t have had their… Their governor was wrong after all, because cases are surging. And you’re seeing this and so it’s sort of like what is… When you throw out a number like that without putting into contexts that the testing has increased-

It’s hard to find a topic that is not controversial to the point of starting a fist fight these days…

Maybe I’m jaded but I have this sense that even if someone developed a cheap, easily accessible cure for all cancers, someone would be cranky about it and leave a “1 star review” for the effort.

Whether that’s only true for some of my Opium Den ramblings or not, there are some objective truths to be found in the world—even in the Crazy-ville that is nutrition. Although there is certainly individual variability in human nutrition, there are some consistent trends (if not outright truths) that hold water, no matter how cranky some folks get about them.

Let’s look at a few of these trendy truths as they relate to protein.

Protein: “We are getting too much! No, wait, not enough!”

The past few years have seen the rise of two interesting camps, both in academia and the interwebz.

One camp suggests that “we” are getting too damn much protein! We’re activating mTOR, accelerating aging, and just being wasteful gluttons in the process.

This camp loves fasting, protein and calorie restriction, and have taken the Longo Shot of selling 500 calorie per day processed meals that somehow help you mimic not eating, by eating really expensive garbage.

This first camp has some very interesting bedfellows you’d not expect to be pals, even if only in the sense that they generally fear protein: vegans and some of the fringier elements of the keto-sphere. It’s not uncommon to find folks in these circles recommending 50g of protein per for men, about 30g for women…and that’s PER DAY, not per meal!

I’m not in that camp.

I’m not vegan. I do like keto. But I like keto that does not strip you of muscle mass and encourage the individual to be so hungry from protein malnutrition that they end up gaining weight on a dietary plan that some still (erroneously) claim one cannot gain weight on.

Far too many people are eating not too much protein, but too little

After a lot of thinking, researching, and observation I’m in the 2nd camp which might be best described as “protein centric.”

There IS a point of diminishing returns with regards to eating protein, but in general I find far too many people are eating not too much protein, but too little.

Diana Rodgers and I dug into the details of this topic in our book and film, Sacred Cow (film releasing end of November!). I’m not going to rehash all that material as we lay it out in a pretty thoughtful way, but for a variety of reasons—including appetite control, optimal foraging strategy, thermic effect, nutrient density, preventing sarcopenia, making sure kids grow properly, and older folks stay in the fight as long as they can—we recommend consuming somewhere in the neighborhood of 1g or protein per lb of lean body mass, all the way up to 1 g of protein per lb of total bodyweight.

That’s a large spread, particularly if an individual is overweight, but when we get folks hovering somewhere in that range, literal magic happens.

And although that protein recommendation is controversial within certain circles, it’s pretty defensible based on the literature and clinical observations of working with folks.

Another nuance to this story is not just the amount of protein, but the type, and more specifically, the amounts and ratios of amino acids (particularly methionine and glycine) that we obtain from our food. There are a lot of important amino acids but for this article we will focus on the interplay of methionine and glycine as many folks are likely getting a bit too much of one and perhaps not enough of the other.

Methionine is an essential amino acid, which means we must obtain adequate amounts via dietary sources as our body cannot brew them up from scratch nor interconvert other amino acids into methionine. Methionine is a sulphur containing amino acid and plays a remarkable number of roles, including acting as a component of structural proteins to mitigating the risk of developing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (that’s a very short accounting but good enough for today).

We tend to obtain large amounts of methionine from the most common animal protein sources: meat, eggs, etc.

Glycine by contrast is a conditionally essential amino acid, which means certain demands may make it impossible for the body to produce adequate amounts, thus necessitating larger dietary sources. Bones, skin, organs, and connective tissues are all relatively rich sources of glycine and this is where potential problems arise.

In general, modern folks are not getting enough glycine relative to methionine and this may be contributing to some health concerns including systemic inflammation.

In traditional food cultures folks tend(ed) to eat the whole critter. Just out of the soup category we have a short list of oxtail soup (I remember eating many a bowl of this with my grandmother who was raised in Arkansas), “cow foot” soup (a favorite in Central America), and fish head soup (hard not to find in most of Asia).

All these traditional foods represent consistent sources of not just protein, but glycine rich protein which balances the metabolic demands of methionine which is rich in the sources we mentioned above.

As awesome as I personally find things like organ meats and tripe (Phø Yea!), not everyone is into those fiddly-bits.

An easy, ecologically responsible and delicious way to not just augment your protein, but also make sure you are getting enough glycine is bone broth.

I use a combination of both home brew that I make monthly from the bones we freeze and then pressure cook to make broth, or the convenience of something like Kettle & Fire Bone Broth.

This may sound kinda nuts… but when we are in a hurry, just getting the family home from jiu jitsu, and we are HUNGRY, one of my go-to’s is some kind of simple soup using Kettle & Fire as a base.

We always have some grass fed ground beef or pastured chicken from our good friends at Pure Pastures as well as some locally caught, sustainably harvested Gulf shrimp on hand. I’ll ask the girls “chicken, beef or shrimp!?” and they yodel out a response.

I pour two packages of Kettle & Fire (always rotating flavors and varieties…you can’t go wrong with any of these) in a medium stock pot and add the meat for this meal (usually about 2lbs, which in total leaves us some leftovers). Then I dump in veggies—usually some kind of squash, tomato, carrots, or perhaps mushrooms. It takes about 15 min for that to cook and then it’s meal time.

Since my girls are pretty carb tolerant I make them some rice which they ladle the soup over. Being the carb-challenged kid that I am, I generally just tackle the soup as is.

We will do this for any meal of the day and do it at least 3-4x per week. To say this is a staple is an understatement.

Circling back to the opening of this piece…

A meal like this not only ticks the box of “adequate protein” but is also a great way to balance the methionine of the chicken, beef, or shrimp with the glycine rich goodness that comes from the bone broth.

I hope you found this valuable! Let me know what you think and also let us know how you are using bone broth to not just make great meals, but to address the important dietary issue of proper methionine to glycine ratio.

My Go-To Protein Balanced Soup

2 cartons of Kettle & Fire bone broth (whichever flavors of you fancy!)
2 lbs meat (ex: pastured chicken or grass-fed beef from Pure Pastures or local, sustainably caught Gulf shrimp)
Veggies (ex: squash, tomato, carrots, mushrooms, kale, etc)
Salt, pepper, other seasonings

Pregnancy Glucose Test, Strongman Nutrition, Dawn Phenomenon | THRR053

Fri, 30 Oct 2020 08:00:42 GMT

Strongman Nutrition, How To Avoid Exacerbating Dawn Phenomenon, Salad Dressing, Glucose Tolerance Test in Pregnancy, Grass-Fed Beef and Nutrition

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Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

We must burn the West to save it How an ancient American Indian practice can reduce the risk of massive wildfires.

A number of unique factors this year combined with long-term trends to create the devastating and unprecedented fires of 2020. But a major reason for the massive scale of the destruction is that natural fires and burning practices first developed by Indigenous people have been suppressed for generations.

Wildfires are essential to many Western ecosystems, restoring nutrients to the soil, clearing decaying brush, and helping plants germinate. Without these fires, vegetation in woodlands, grasslands, and chaparral shrublands accumulates, so more fuel is available to burn, especially when a megadrought keeps drying out the fuel, year after year. A debt to the landscape starts to mount, and when it comes due, there is hell to pay.

“If we’re not using fire in the same way that this landscape evolved with over millennia, then we could be creating a situation where we’re creating a further imbalance,” said Don Hankins, an environmental geographer at California State University Chico and a Plains Miwok Indigenous fire practitioner.

1. Strongman Nutrition Help [32:22]

Joshua says:

Good afternoon. I’m a 30 year old father of 7. I’m 166 centimetres tall and 90kg at 30% body fat based of the navy body fat test. I recently have been inspired to get as strong as healthily possible so I can be my children’s own superhero after watching Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson pull the 501 kg world record deadlift. I know you also have been really successful with powerlifting in the past. So my question for you would be. How would one eat to get as strong as possible.

Thank you kindly

Joshua

2. How To Avoid Exacerbating Dawn Phenomenon [35:46]

Donna says:

Hi, Robb & Team,

I’ve been about 90% Paleo (sourdough bread occasionally, some dairy) since mid-March, and overall I’ve felt a lot better. My meal routine worked fine right through summer.

In fall, I ran into a problem. My blood sugar is generally highest first thing in the morning, before I’ve eaten anything, and this seems to be due to 1) burning through my dinner calories by around 5:00 a.m., now that it’s colder and I’ve resumed weight training at my gym; and 2) the dawn phenomenon, assuming this is a real “thing,” where glucose gets poured into the blood in preparation for waking up.

Some research turned up the suggestion of eating 4-6 ounces of a slow-digesting food 30-60 minutes before bedtime to prevent a big blood-sugar drop in the early morning. Do you know whether this works? If it does, would you suggest a protein (nuts), or more of a complex carb (dried fruit)? Or would you recommend an entirely different strategy?

Thanks,

Donna

3. Salad Dressing w/ Sunflower Oil? [40:52]

Kate says:

Hi Robb and Nicki,

I really enjoy your podcast and find it to be both informative and entertaining. I have recently been using Tessemae salad dressing which is supposed to be Whole30 approved but I noticed it was made of high oleic sunflower oil. Is it a problem to consume this oil and if so, what would be a better salad dressing option that contains more omega 3? I believe the high Oleic sunflower oil is lower in polyunsaturated fats and omega 6 than normal sunflower oil but should it still be avoided?

4. Glucose Tolerance Test in Pregnancy [52:29]

Whitney says:

Hi Robb and Nicki!

Been listening to you for about a year now. Love the show! Been gluten free for 10 years (Celiac) and Paleo-ish for about 4. I’m pregnant with my first child and nearing the point where I need to take the dreaded glucose tolerance test for gestational diabetes. I was floored when I found out it consists of drinking 50 grams of sugar on an empty stomach, and if you fail that test, you have to come back and do the same thing with 100 gram of sugar!!!! As someone who avoids sugar and keep my carbs in check this makes my stomach turn. I bought a cheap glucometer and have been monitoring my blood glucose for about a week in hopes the OB/GYN will take that as a replacement for the glucose test. On a broader level I wanted to get your general thoughts on this test. In my mind, this test for gestational diabetes is probably giving people diabetes! Am I making too big of a deal about a one time glucose test? I’m thinking its time for an update to the guidelines here, and surely there has to be a better way to test for gestational diabetes. Fasting insulin maybe? Some sort of HOMA score? I just think it’s ridiculous that our health system is forcing all pregnant women to ingest 50-100 grams of sugar in one go! Would love your thoughts. Thanks for all you do!

Whitney

https://lilynicholsrdn.com/dealing-with-gestational-diabetes/

5. Grass-Fed Beef & Nutrition [59:10]

Sofia says:

Hi Robb,

Thanks for everything you’re doing for the planet! It’s really important work and I notice and appreciate you.

I wanted to address something you said the last time I heard you on a Podcast….can’t remember which one, I listen to so many.

When you got to the question around nutrition you claimed that there really are no health benefits to eating grass-fed beef or dairy over conventionally raised, feed-lot animals.

Are you aware that grain fed cows don’t produce K2, a critical nutrient and the hormone necessary for escorting calcium out of the blood supply and into bone. I could be wrong, but based on my research your claim that there is no notable difference between the nutrient density of the two animals is false. Please reference Dr. Kate Rheaume-Bleue’s book, Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox if you’re curious about learning more. If what she says is true, then the transition from grass-fed, regenaritive beef production to the feed lot, grain finished model could correlate to the rise in arteriosclerosis in the States and Europe. Don’t you think?

Thanks again for the work you’re doing!

Lovingly,

Sofia

Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Joovv. Joovv is the leading manufacturer of personal, in-home red light therapy devices, with several different sizes and setups. Clinical grade power to help reduce pain, fight inflammation, so you can live a happy healthier life. Check them out at joovv.com/robb and use code ROBB for a free gift with your purchase.

Transcript:

Download a transcript of this episode here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with a bold aim to help 1 million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness challenge. Warning, when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney Plus.

Robb: Trying to make a squeak there.

Nicki: No squeaks.

Robb: No squeaks. There is no squeaking in podcasting.

Nicki: No.

Robb: Good morning wife.

Nicki: Good morning hubs.

Robb: What’s new? What’s exciting?

Nicki: Oh goodness. We’re back at it. We just got back from our trip to Reno.

Robb: With family.

Nicki: We spent a week in Nevada with my dad and visiting friends and celebrating my 43rd trip around the sun.

Robb: I thought it was your 38th birthday.

Nicki: That’s what Jason kept saying. He’s been very kind.

Robb: That was the word on the street. Yes. That was a grand time.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: Would I remember of it?

Nicki: And It was perfect weather, gorgeous fall, cool air. Cool in the evening. Cool in the morning, sunny and warm during the day. It was lovely.

Robb: Awesome.

Nicki: Yeah. That’s getting a little nostalgic.

Robb: You can do that. You’re 43.

Nicki: Let’s see. What else? Yeah, we got to visit a lot of folks. I got my hair cut from my favorite hairstylist on the planet, a good friend of mine. It was interesting chatting with her about all the changes they’ve had to make since the coronavirus. Fortunately, they’re back working. Salons obviously are one of the places that are back in action. They did have plexiglass between all of the shampoo stations now. Standard precautions, wiping everything down, all that kind of thing. But it’s interesting talking to her. She shared that one of her clients, an elderly woman who I guess her husband had cancer.

Robb: You said lymphoma?

Nicki: I don’t remember if she specified, but at the onset of this whole thing, they decided that they were going to completely stay home. So, ordering groceries, not seeing anyone, not even children and grandchildren and to try to keep him safe, because obviously he was in the vulnerable population.

Robb: High risk. Yeah.

Nicki: Then she shared, unfortunately, this woman had an aneurysm a couple of weeks ago and passed away. Again, there’s just so many … it’s just a complicated story. Right?

Robb: Well, and I don’t know if we were going to mention this, but generally our reviews are pretty favorable. Occasionally my language gets somebody up in arms, but we had somebody post, and I think the title was something like COVID Truther.

Nicki: Yeah, we got a one-star review from a nurse who said he or she, I don’t know, is unsubscribing from the podcast and can’t believe about our stance on masks, which I think I was trying to recall, when Robb and I were talking, I think the main thing that we’ve discussed is that we’ve shared different people’s experiences who have either had traumatic experiences and struggle with wearing a mask or what are the knock-on effects, like little infants in neo-

Robb: Well, and I did get into some early … not early, like some ten-year-old studies looking at influenza transmission. I thought that those might be fairly apolitical, like they actually might be doing science for the sake of doing science. What I took from that was that, for a mask to work at all in mitigating the transmission of airborne transmissible diseases, needs to be one of these N95 mask, you have to wear it exactly properly. You have to do all this other hygiene stuff like not touching your face, not putting it on, not taking it off, or it just doesn’t work. Even then, it mitigates things by about a 10% margin, which is non-trivial potentially, but virtually no one other than health care providers are wearing an N95 mask, and the way that we have this stuff set up, like going into a restaurant, you take it out of your pocket or your purse or off of the bottom of the car, as our kids warp them up and throw them wherever.

Robb: Then you put them on and you walk through the place and then you sit down and then you take them off. It’s just one of these things where I guess it’s just this thing that feels like theater. This is largely what I’ve been trying to talk about. I don’t know what the fucking right answer is. We have some people who are like, “Just wear the damn mask.” Like it doesn’t call anybody in.

Nicki: What was the article that somebody shared, I believe in Healthy Rebellion, and the man who wrote it was some scientific researcher guy who worked with some very dangerous compounds and had to be specially fitted for this, like super mask that has like … he talked about ingress and egress. If you have a really dangerous substance that you’re working with, you inhale through two sides where there’s multiple filters filtering stuff out and you exhale through a different canister that has a different kind of filter. He talked about how he would have to go through this process when he would remove it and put it on to make sure that his hands didn’t touch, because basically that type of mask is actually filtering stuff out. What we’re wearing, it’s not a barrier to COVID.

Robb: Well, it is to a degree, but everything needs to work. The point that he made there was that the type of mass that we’re dealing with here is that, if you get exposed to some airborne COVID, to the degree, the mask works, now the exterior of the mask is covered on the mask.

Nicki: It’s on the exterior of the mask, which then you’re going to touch.

Robb: Which then you’re going to touch, pulling the mask up, pulling the mask down. Again, I see even bringing this up, we’re probably going to get 10 more one-star reviews, and that we’re-

Nicki: I think the main thing is that we’re trying to talk about it in a nuanced, non-religious way. Let’s really look at it as it. Is it really everything that it … Why does it have to become this politicized issue? Really look at it.

Robb: The flip side of that though, and I don’t mean to interrupt, because that’s me putting my white male privilege all over you. But there are folks out there that are like, “Listen, just wear the damn mask.” I’ve been trying to warm up to that more. I’m like, well, okay, well, what’s my problem with this? But this is some of the stuff that I had problems with going through TSA. Just as a chemist, seeing these people swab folks’ hands at this random deal and then go …

Nicki: I got my swabbed this weekend.

Robb: Then go over and do a GCMS. In the back of my head, I’m like, when was that instrument calibrated? How was it calibrated? How did they do their QA/QC process on it? There’s all this stuff that starts going. To say nothing of the rest of it, and it’s just one of these things, and I’m not the smartest person in the room by any means, but I know enough about some of this stuff. That if you’re going to go through the process of just adding millions of dead hours of people traveling around the United States and lost productivity in a TSA process, make it fucking work. Just set it up in a way where it really works, or don’t do it at all. Do it the way that they do in Israel, where it is … They have a metal detector that you kind of jam through, and then they have lots and lots of people that are trained, and it’s like interview and interrogation stuff.

Robb: They see you perspiring a little bit, and they’re like, “Hey, where are you going? What’s your story?” They largely default to humans interacting with humans to do the bulk of the stuff, and it works very, very well, and its low infrastructure costs, and it’s actually much more difficult to circumvent. These things like security theater makes me crazy. We go to Schlitterbahn here with the girls, the water park.

Nicki: Yeah, we talked about that earlier in the year.

Robb: Well, I’ll mention it again. Thank you. In theory, they look in your bag, but it’s like, they look and their mouth breathing. It’s just like, either do it, like really do it, or don’t do it at all. But I guess this is part and parcel for the world. People are okay with the perception of efficacy.

Nicki: The perception of safety.

Robb: And the perception of safety. Whereas for me, it’s like either do it right, or don’t do it at all. The case that I’ve been making is that the way that this mask thing has been handled for me just doesn’t make sense because it’s like, shut the whole fucking world down then. If it is so dangerous, then just shut everything down, kill every business, and we will all be … Population will not be a problem because we’ll be eating each other within six months because everything will have collapsed and it will be absolute chaos. Either really do it, like if you’re so morally bent that the coronavirus is the most dangerous thing facing humanity, then do what’s really necessary to make coronavirus a non-issue. It will have knock on unintended consequences that will make it pale.

Nicki: It already has. Yeah.

Robb: I would argue it already has, but this is the spot that I’m at. What’s fascinating to me is I’m a truther for even, which that’s this whole … that’s like, you’re a racist, you’re a sexist. It’s like this super emotionally charged word versus like, hey, here are the points that I agree on, here are the points I disagree on. But instead of that, we just have this broad brush dismissal of all this stuff. Again, we had agreed not really to talk about that.

Nicki: He or she feels like …

Robb: We’re going to kill people.

Nicki: … you’re unwittingly causing deaths of people because our listeners are going to not wear masks, even though we’ve never said don’t wear a mask, and then they were going to unwittingly kill people. Anyway.

Robb: I’m not entirely sure what my point was to even bringing that up, but it’s just, so like, in the case of your friend, you have these … it’s super sad.

Nicki: It’s just tragic. A lot of people are living in fear of something that yes, takes lives, but by all accounts, the numbers that the CDC has posted is not as deadly as we feared in early March.

Robb: If you’re hospitalized for a serious case of COVID, the fatality rate has dropped something like 75%. It used to be a 25% fatality rate if X, Y, Z parameters were met, and now it’s something like a 7% fatality rate because we’ve had nearly a year of treating people to learn how to do things better. Then there are all these novel therapeutics and different things like that. I don’t know, man, there’s just a lot going on. I feel like there’s like this terror that comes … that is being broadcast. Like, there’s not a ray of hope. It’s going to be a dark, dark winter.

Nicki: We had people on the plane wearing two masks, like overlapping them. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s an interesting time.

Robb: I know. Again, all of our podcasts are kind of turning into like quasi salty talks at this point. It’s funny, having somebody … I think a lot of folks would be like, well, why do you even let this one person’s comment bother you? We’ve talked about the evolutionary biology of this stuff before, where somebody who is threatening you, it’s way more important to pay attention to them than somebody that’s like, “Hey, Robb, good job.” That’s a non threat, so you acknowledge it, but it doesn’t really have the same impact, but it’s just interesting how weaponized all of this stuff has become where I’m a truther, we are likely killing people by suggesting that …

Nicki: There’s nuance around any given topic.

Robb: That there’s nuance around this, that we might have a discussion around and whatnot. Then I constantly reevaluate where I am with this stuff, but there’s just pieces of the story that are so grading and annoying and inconsistent. This is again why we got paid really, really well working for CrossFit. There were just moral inconsistencies there that I couldn’t ignore, couldn’t shut my mouth about. Lots of other people did, lots of other people got to mobilize their way around the moral hazard that they were facing being a part of all that, and I couldn’t, that doesn’t make me a saint, but this is kind of who I am, and you were very much the same way. I see things with this and I’m just like, “Hey man, can we have a discussion around this?” What I think folks don’t fully grasp is, just having a discussion is now verboten. We posted that thing about Bret Weinstein getting his Facebook …

Nicki: Account deactivated.

Robb: … account deactivated, and there was a whole fascinating backstory. I think it’s episode 50 of the dark horse podcast, where they unpack that. It’s really interesting. It is completely one, he had not even logged into there in a couple of months. He had not posted anything there.

Nicki: He barely posted anything on Facebook at this point.

Robb: He’d barely post anything. It was a really squirrely explanation that Facebook put forward. Then it turned out that all of the people in the supply chain of making that decision are either current or former DNC like operatives. One gal was-

Nicki: Working for Nancy Pelosi.

Robb: Yeah, and Elizabeth Warren and all this stuff. Again, I don’t want to turn this into crazyville politics show, but …

Nicki: It’s just a fascinating episode. If this is something you’re … they talk a lot about censorship. They’ve been the target of a lot of censorship of late, and so if that’s interesting to you, listen to the podcast. It’ll give the full picture.

Robb: It’s fascinating and it makes the point better than what I’m doing here, that all of this stuff, the censorship, the hyper-reactivity to the ability to just have a conversation. Bret makes the case, both he and his wife and I’ve made this case in the past too, if you don’t allow people to have a discussion, like there was a time when speech and thought was protected, even if we didn’t like the content of that stuff, and it was understood that it was better to have it out because then it’s like, okay, I know who those people are. I know what they’re about. Even the right to protest, some of that is like, okay, now we know everybody that’s in this politically or socially affiliated scene. It allows one to blow off steam, but also from a state level, it’s like, well, we know who these people are.

Robb: If you suppress the ability to just have a discussion to just share ideas, then you don’t know who is where and what they’re thinking. Just the potential for just stunningly catastrophic, bad stuff to happen is just seems so obvious, but I have people push back on this all the time. People like Jordan Peterson, Bret Weinstein, us, it seems pretty clear what the dangers are here, but for other people, it just … a publisher platform, they can pick what they want. I’m still just stupefied, but I had the two knucklehead Polish doctors that I ended up panicking, because they were all fired up about other doctors getting banned from the internet if they felt like what they were promoting was outside the orthodoxy and whatnot. It is coming around where anything that doesn’t fit the narrative, and so like meat doesn’t fit the narrative because it’s …

Nicki: So many things in history have not fit the narrative and have been out of the standard, like orthodoxy have turned out to be like major breakthroughs in science.

Robb: Right. Again, Semmelweis and all this stuff we’ve talked about.

Nicki: That alone should give people pause and let’s just see where this goes.

Robb: Right. I didn’t anticipate that going quite that direction, but shall we …

Nicki: Shall we move on?

Robb: Yes, we shall.

Nicki: What is your news topic today?

Robb: So, it’s a Vox piece, which I’m … mixed on Vox. They’re an interesting outlet, but they have an interesting piece. We must burn the West to save it. How an ancient American Indian practice can reduce the risk of massive wildfires. I’ll read a little section from this in a second, but one of the things that deeply endeared me to Nicki early on, in addition to her stunning good looks and a bubbly personality …

Nicki: Ooh, bubbly. Haven’t heard that one before.

Robb: I was thumbing through your book section and you had an anthropology book, which I’m always kind of a fan of anthropology, and it had a section on Northern California native American tribes, and one of the chapters, so this was a compendium of different subject matter experts on Northern California native American tribes. One of the chapters talked about the use of controlled fire to dramatically enhance, both the carrying capacity of the area and the productivity of the land, the productivity of the food system. These native American peoples in say, kind of San. Luis Obispo North, maybe even a little bit further South than that, but lots of grasslands, lots of giant oak trees, but separated from each other. So, it was like this really interesting kind of fractal mosaic of like grass and oak trees, and the oak trees were huge, but they were separated from each other.

Robb: What these folks had a tendency to do was on a pretty consistent and plan basis was set fires to the grasslands, which would encourage a lot of things. It minimized disease that could impact the oak trees, and the oak trees, the acorns they produced were major staple for the folks that lived in that area. It improved the productivity of the grasslands, so that, that interaction between the grazing animals and this freshly burned area, the next go around, it releases stored nutrients and gets it back into the grass, and so the grass grows really well. The long and short of it is that, that area of Northern California carried between three to five times greater population density than virtually any other native American area in the Americas, North, South central America. You could make the argument that they were on this cusp of agriculture, transitional horticulturalists, agriculturalists.

Robb: You can make the same case of the Pacific Northwest tribes that basically farmed salmon. They caught salmon, but the whole setup is much more reminiscent of an agricultural society, the way that they planned and stored and did all that stuff, and they were actually in fairly stable locations versus moving around like hunter-gatherers and whatnot. But anyway, the way that they managed all this stuff was with controlled burns. Reading from this piece, “A number of unique factors this year combined with long-term trends to create the devastating and unprecedented fires of 2020. But a major reason for the massive scale of the destruction is that natural fires and burning practices first developed by Indigenous people have been suppressed for generations.”

Robb: “Wildfires are essential to many Western ecosystems, restoring nutrients to the soil, clearing decaying brush, and helping plants germinate. Without these fires, vegetation in woodlands, grasslands, and chaparral shrublands accumulates, so more fuel is available to burn, especially when a megadrought keeps drying out the fuel, year after year. A debt to the landscape starts to mount, and when it comes due, there is hell to pay.” Then they’re quoting someone who’s being quoted here.

Robb: If we’re not using fire in the same way that this landscape evolved with over millennia, then we could be creating a situation where we’re creating a further imbalance,” said Don Hankins, an environmental geographer at California State University Chico and a Plains Miwok Indigenous fire practitioner.” This is another one of these things where … The article is interesting in that it makes the case that fire suppression was actually kind of a racist anti-indigenous population practice because the indigenous population wanted to do this, then the more European settlers tried to suppress it because it was suppressing part of their life-way. I think we’ve gone through cycles of this. There was a time when clearly significant logging occurred in the West and maybe to an extreme where there wasn’t enough replanting and all kinds of problems happened with that. But then-

Nicki: Forest Service used to do controlled burns too, right?

Robb: We’ve gone through cycles through that stuff and we have been in a period of time. What this article makes the case and other people have made this case, is that climate change is likely a piece of the story, but is a tiny piece compared to the general mismanagement of these areas. What’s interesting is it generally, I’ll do quotations, it’s generally environmentalist minded people that are pushing the agenda of, we can’t do burning, we can’t do logging like, and so then we end up with 20, 30, 40 years of buildup, and then when a fire does occur, it happens in a way that never occurred in history previously, whether humans were in the area or not. This case is being made in a lot of areas, it’s being made in Australia, it’s being made all throughout the Americas.

Robb: But it’s a pretty unpopular position, but the irony here is we actually have an indigenous population example of how they managed these areas very differently than what we’re doing now. We have other problems in that people are building houses up into hills and stuff like that. These are very amenable for catastrophic fires, but it makes even a bigger case for keep all that overabundance of fuel at a minimum, like try to minimize that. I was trying to think of an analogy around controlled burns and vaccinations. It’s like the mega fire is kind of like catching smallpox or something, and the small fires are like an immunization. Immunizations don’t always go exactly the way you want, and don’t always come without some degree of consequences, but now I’m going to be a vaccine by saying that.

Robb: But there is a reality. Every once in a while, a controlled burn gets squirrely, but as this article cites, there were some pretty good rules that were used when indigenous peoples would or would not do a particular controlled burn, and I think that we can learn a lot from that. We could use satellite imaging. We could use our modern weather forecasting. If it looks like the wind is coming up, then even though we had a controlled burn planned, we don’t do it that day, or we figure out other workarounds, but this is another one, these kind of climate change pieces, like the totality of this problem is being leveled at climate change. Again, there is, without a doubt that is a factor in this story, but it is not the primary driver.

Robb: If we managed all this the way that we’re doing it currently, and we were heading into an ice age, it would be the same. It would be a similar type of problem. If you have areas that are grown up in a way that it hasn’t happened for like 15,000 years and probably longer than that prior to that, just from like lightning strikes and natural phenomenon of fires, we have to give some thought to the resilience of nature and the way that we can learn from stewarding that process instead of trying to ratchet it down and control it whole hard, because we can’t. We just can’t.

Nicki: Well, it’s just like being overweight or in obesity, there’s not a singular cause for it. There’s inflammatory foods, poor sleep, stress. There’s a whole factor of things that play into one end result. Thinking that there’s one singular reason for a situation is kind of limited thinking.

Robb: It’s a really good point. If you just say climate change, and then you shift your focus somewhere else, then we’re not going to be looking at these multivariate inputs to say, okay, well, which of these is likely the greatest impact, and/or because we have limited resources, where should we be putting the bulk of our efforts? Should California be putting the bulk of its efforts trying to move to a completely fossil fuel free society within 10 years to address these fires? Or should they revisit the way that these landscapes have been managed for at least 10,000 years, and were managed in a way that dramatically benefited the societies that live there? These people were healthy, they were able to sustain a population that was three to five times greater than most other areas of the Americas. There’s something to be learned from that.

Robb: Again, this is where, going back to my original piece, if we’re suppressing everything that a knee-jerk response, it’s like, oh, now Robb and Nicki are climate change deniers. It’s like, no, we’re not, man. If we just stifle everything that, at first pass, doesn’t quite fit what we’re thinking, and there was this time that, well, I agree with six of the 10 points the person made, and I disagree with four of them. Now we can’t do that. It’s like, we need to have 10 out of 10 agreement or the person’s a racist or a denialist.

Nicki: Or on the fringe. The lunatic fringe.

Robb: The lunatic fringe. Again, I guess this stuff is just kind of wrong leaning into it, but it makes us very hamstrung from being able to really make good decisions and have the discussions about like, well, how should we handle this stuff, is what we’ve been doing the last 50 years. Is that the way that we should do it? Are we just powerless to affect this? Or there’s some things that people were actually doing pre-European contact that were working really, really well, both for them and for the environment around them?

Nicki: All right. I think we should move on.

Robb: Shit. This has been a whole podcast already yeah.

Nicki: This is so long. Okay, let’s see here. Let’s read our t-shirt review winner of the week. It goes to Ancestral Dr. Josh, the real deal myth-busting source for healthy living. As a long-time follower of Robb and his crew, and both as a patient with Crohn’s disease and a naturopathic physician myself, I can say that every episode, since the paleo solution episode one has been the real deal. Supremely helpful to my health journey and my favorite source for myth-busting, so much of the conventional BS that you hear reported in mainstream media. Robb is one of the best at dismantling poorly done articles and explaining how the research upon which they are based is often flawed or misrepresented by article authors in the media. He’s a super smart dude, and Nicki is great at keeping the podcast flowing nicely and has lots of wisdom and perspective till the end as well.

Nicki: Their dynamic together has really helped focus the podcast, though I must say it has always been entertaining from day one in its original iteration, the paleo solution. So, go back, start from the beginning, gain some incredible wisdom and get, or stay healthy. This guy is like one of the original six listeners.

Robb: OG.

Nicki: Old guard, yes. OG, for sure. Definitely worthy of a t-shirt. Ancestral. Dr. Josh, thank you. Send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com with your t-shirt size and your mailing address, and we’ll send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt. This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by Joovv. Anyone who’s familiar with light therapy knows Joovv is the leading brand. Joovv pioneered this technology, and they were the first ones to isolate red and near infrared light and make it accessible and affordable for in-home use, and they’ve remained the most innovative forward-thinking light therapy brand. We’ve seen firsthand the recovery benefits that come with using a Joovv red light therapy device.

Robb: Yeah, I have a good friend that was in the military for a good stint, and clearly has had a lot of TBI, traumatic brain injury events and just the stress, the circadian disruption with multiple deployments and whatnot. He has really benefited from this. Adopted some ancestral eating, really paid attention to circadian biology and whatnot, but if there is an area where some of this red light therapy shines, it’s looking at some neurological effects in particular. Seems to have broad ranging systemic anti-inflammatory effects, but some of the neurological effects seem to be pretty powerful.

Nicki: Joovv just launched their next generation of devices and have made a huge upgrades to was already the best red light therapy system on the market. Their new devices are sleeker, they’re lighter, up to 25% lighter, and they’ve intensified their coverage area, so you can stand as much as three times further away from the device and still get the recommended dosage. Easy mounting options. New Joovv can fit in just about any space that you have, and all Joovv devices now have ambient mode for calming lower intensity of light at night. For those of us that like to use Joovv devices to wind down from the day, you can now do that easily, and we’re heading into winter, so now is the perfect time to get your Joovv red light therapy device.

Nicki: For a limited time, Joovv wants to hook you up with an exclusive discount on your first order. Go to joovv.com/robb. That’s joovv.com/robb and apply our code, ROBB, R-O-B-B to your qualifying order. Exclusions apply, limited time only, but check them out. Again, that’s joovv.com/robb. You ready to answer some questions?

Robb: Yeah, we’re like 40 minutes in. I’ll answer some questions.

Eating for Kidney Disease, Muscle Mass, LDL Up 102 points, Is Bone Broth Made In Pressure Cooker Healthy?, Biochemistry For Beginners

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Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Iatrogenics: Why Intervention Often Leads to Worse Outcomes

Iatrogenics is when a treatment causes more harm than benefit. As iatros means healer in Greek, the word means “caused by the healer” or “brought by the healer.” Healer, in this sense, need not mean doctor, but anyone intervening to solve a problem. For example, it could be a thought leader, a CEO, a government, or a coalition of the willing. Nassim Taleb calls these people interventionistas. Often these people come armed with solutions to solve the first-order consequences of a decision but create worse second and subsequent order consequences. Luckily, for them at least, they’re never around to see the train wreck they created.

1. Eating For Kidney Disease [23:54]

Tyler says:

Hey Robb,

Years ago, you wrote a multi-part post about kidney health, and mentioned a former client at NorCal S&C who was recommended dialysis. One of your coaches instructed him to eat super low carb, and about the same protein (around 10% for both macros), and the rest of his diet consisting of fat. The end result (at least in your article) was that he recovered a great deal of his kidney function…

Now that I’ve told you about your own article (lol), here are my questions:

1. Is that still a protocol you’d recommend for someone with stage 4 kidney disease?

2. If so, what can you even eat on an 80% fat diet?

This info is for my mother-in-law. She’s almost 70, and has kidney disease presumedly brought on by Henoch-Schoenlein Purpura. She lives in Japan so she has access to great quality seafood, but coconut products are uncommon. I’ve been trying to get her to quit eating bread, rice and soy products as a start. She still eats some dairy.

Are there any foods within a typical Paleo diet she should avoid? For example, fruit?

She is prescribed some type of steroid (not sure what or how much), and

is of normal weight, and does not take any blood pressure meds that I

know of.

Not expecting any type of miraculous full recovery, just wanting to help her get the most she can out of life. Thanks for any direction you might be able to guide me towards.

PS: the wife and I are huge fans of LMNT, and you were right: do NOT accidentally (Or purposely) inhale the Lemon Habanero dust!!

Low carbohydrate diet may reverse kidney failure in people with diabetes

Researchers have for the first time determined that the ketogenic diet, a specialized high-fat, low carbohydrate diet, may reverse impaired kidney function in people with Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes.

2. Muscle Mass [33:04]

Ben says:

Hey Robb,

Love the work you have done and really appreciate all that you do. FYI Sacred Cow was a phenomenal book, very nice work. I am writing in regards to muscle mass. You have mentioned previously on the importance of muscle mass as we age and starting around age 30 we will start loosing it slowing and/or it’s much harder to gain muscle mass as we age. My question is how much muscle mass should I be aiming for. For context I am a 30 year-old male, 6’4″, 218-225 lbs 8-10% body fat (depending on season). The reason I ask is I enjoy competing in Crossfit; however, am uncertain if I should focus more on trying to put on more mass or if moving forward with these numbers seems appropriate? Ultimately I do enjoy competing, but don’t want to become decrepit when I’m older. (Other info if it helps– squat- 425 DL- 545 Be- 325 Fran 2:45. I have never done full extensive blood work but my most recent basic blood work ie Chem 7, testosterone, basic lipid panel all looked “normal”.)

Thanks for all you do,

Ben

3. LDL Up 102 points [36:47]

Clint says:

Hey Robb- I recently got some blood work done for work and I was pretty amazed at my lipid profile. My total cholesterol went from 148 to 268. LDL went from 86-188. Triglycerides went down 62-54 and HDL increased from 50-69. My GP wasn’t too concerned bc the triglycerides decreased and HDL increased but he still wants me to monitor it. The two weeks leading up to my blood work have been mostly carnivore-esque as I’ve noticed some headaches from fruit and indigestion with some veggies. I sneak in some full fat dairy by means of a little heavy whipping cream, I cook with kerrygold butter, and have a little kerrygold cheese from time to time. I’m 6’2” 186lbs at about 8-10% body fat. I do drink about 40 Oz of French press coffee per day and I know that can muck with LDL but I’m not so sure of that big of an increase over 3 years. Exercise- I Do some variation of cardio 4-6 times per week and flirt with some CrossFit style workouts 1-2 times per week. I dropped the intensity since going more low carb/carnivore as to not fry myself. Protein intake usually consists of chicken (all parts, not just a breast guy), beef (steak, burgers), eggs, Wild planet sardines, wild caught salmon, etc… I never cook with coconut oil or seed oils (coconut never agreed with me). I’ll eat some stevia sweetened dark chocolate a couple times per week. I’ve been sleeping 6-8 hours per night (2 kids going on 3). Any insight from your experience as to why my bloodwork took a shit? I’ve been relatively low carb for years.

Thanks!

Total cholesterol and all-cause mortality by sex and age: a prospective cohort study among 12.8 million adults

4. Is Bone Broth Made In Pressure Cooker Healthy?? [45:56]

Matthew says:

Hi Nicki and Robb,

Appreciate your work and show.

Question: I have a hard time digesting bone broth, it gives me some digestive upset and I can’t really consume it, even though I know I could use the gut healing benefits. I have issues with histamines, so that may be a big reason since it’s typically slow-cooked, which is one of the things that creates a lot of histamines in foods and is an issue for those with histmaine tolerance issues (I’m working on that issue, but it’s a long healing trajectory). I’ve heard a little about using a pressure cooker like and instant pot to make bone broth, which allws it to be done more swiftly, but I can’t find any information on how beneficial it is when made in pressure cooker. Is it as good as when it’s slow-cooked, in terms of nutritional value? Curious if you might have any information or insights on this. Many thanks!

Matthew

Oakland, CA

http://delicatebelly.com/low-histamine-bone-broth/

chicarones?

5. Biochemistry For Beginners [48:47]

Hoby says:

Robb,

Love your podcast and books, and listening to you and some others in the Paleo/keto/carnivore universe, I hear a lot of biochemistry discussed. I have a medical background from military service, but biochemistry was not a subject I got a lot of info in… I was wondering if you had a recommendation on a “ biochemistry for dummies” book.

I appreciate any recommendations you may have..

Hoby

http://watcut.uwaterloo.ca/webnotes/Metabolism/

Sponsor:

This episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by White Oak Pastures. White Oak Pastures is a six-generation, 154-year-old family farm in Bluffton, GA. They pasture-raise 10 species of livestock and practice regenerative agriculture that improves the land. Their cattle and sheep are grassfed, their pork and poultry are pasture-raised and given non-GMO feed. All their meats are raised, slaughtered, and butchered on the farm. They also sell organic vegetables, pasture-raised eggs, honey, pet chews, leather items, tallow goods, and more artisan products that they make on the farm. They are committed to animal welfare, land regeneration, and rural revival. Check them out at http://whiteoakpastures.com/robbwolf and enter code REBEL10 to get 10% off product total ($100 max discount) for first-time customers.

Transcript:

Download a transcript of this episode here (PDF)

Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging, and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with a bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio. The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credentialed functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary, or fitness change. Warning: when Robb gets passionate, he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if gets your britches in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.

Nicki: I don’t think we’ve ever started the show quite like that.

Robb: With animal noises? What’s happening, wife?

Nicki: Good morning.

Robb: Good morning.

Nicki: Bright and early here in New Braunfels, Texas.

Robb: It’s early. It’s not quite bright yet.

Nicki: It’s not bright. It’s dark and early.

Robb: It’s a very amazing moon, though. It’s that bottom-only crescent-

Nicki: Crescent, nice.

Robb: … with Venus right above it. It’s actually spectacular.

Nicki: And you saw that because you took the recycling out this morning.

Robb: Indeed, I did.

Nicki: Thank you.

Robb: I ran the scorpion gauntlet barefoot down to the recycling area.

Nicki: Awesome.

Robb: Yeah. What’s new with you?

Nicki: Oh, goodness. Well, we’re recording this one a bit early. We’re going to go spend some time in Reno, see my dad and some friends, do some jujitsu, all that good stuff.

Robb: We will clearly quarantine for 14 days upon arrival.

Nicki: Of course, and upon return.

Robb: And upon return, yeah.

Nicki: Yes.

Robb: What else? What else? How’s that new blue belt breaking in for you?

Nicki: Oh, it’s kind of stuff. New belts are stiff, apparently.

Robb: I was speaking more broadly and meta.

Nicki: I know, I know. I know. I’m very literal.

Robb: And, of course, you are the Literal Lucy.

Nicki: Yep. What else do you want to share?

Robb: Two weeks of no social media on the phones.

Nicki: This is true.

Robb: I got to say life is not bad. Life is not bad. Although I have no doubt that the world is probably going to burn down and change and all kinds of drastic horrible shit’s going to happen, but I feel like I’m pretty well-prepared for that and I don’t need to have a 24/7 newsfeed reminding me that the end times are nigh.

Nicki: Of all the terrible shit?

Robb: Yeah. It’s like, okay, everybody’s crazy. Nobody can get along. Maybe some of that’s internal to the failings of humanity, and some of that may be goaded along by algorithms of our AI overlords, and I don’t really give two shits one way or the other at this point.

Nicki: Yeah, I definitely feel like a lot of just … You see something, you watch a video, and you have lingering thoughts or it just occupies a lot of your mental space, and I feel like, for the last couple of weeks, we’ve just had a lot more peace, just been much more present.

Robb: Well, and some of the other work we’re doing, definitely more creative because you have more CPU cycles to put, one time, and then, two, I think when you’re not in that low-grade fight or flight kind of scenario just from consuming all this shit that you actually have some room for creativity and stuff like that. I will throw something out there, not a Salty Talk, this is not the news topic du jour, but there was something that popped up that I just think is reflective of some things that people should be concerned about. Yelp is now going to allow people to post if they believe that a business is racist. I posted something about this on Facebook, and I actually called out a few of the folks in the paleo ancestral health space who’ve been pretty hardcore social justice warrioring. That’s certainly their right and privilege to be able to do that, but as fudged up as our world is and the challenges we have and all that type of stuff, I just continually don’t get the sense that people understand the danger of weaponizing things like Yelp.

Robb: Again, just very brief on this, but I think it is important. The difference in spelling between rapist and racist is one letter. The difference as far as social stigma, I’m not entirely sure that there is that much difference. It is a scarlet letter and I guess rightfully so if the accusation is true. But the difference in practicality is that if you call someone a rapist, you have to have proof. If you don’t have proof, you will get sued, you will go to jail potentially. Whereas racist is just this weaponized term that is now going to apparently enter one of the more important ways of delineating a good versus bad business, and it can be at the whim of someone who-

Nicki: And someone can just say that and just … The way I’m understand what you’re saying is people will be able to just say, “Okay, this particular Jack in the Box is racist.” It’s-

Robb: Or the manager is racist or whatever, yeah.

Nicki: Or the manager is, and so then that business would have some sort of emblem or icon attached to it in their Yelp profile. But that business doesn’t get a chance to defend itself at all.

Robb: There’s kind of a-

Nicki: So if I have a restaurant-

Robb: Here’s the deal. There is a route-

Nicki: … and I have a competitor that I dislike, I can get my employees or my minions to go and slap that label on their business and make them look bad so that I look good.

Robb: Yeah, and this has already been done. This is one of the dangers of things like Yelp. If you have a competitor, if you have someone you don’t like, if you just had either shitty service or good service and you were just feeling like being a dick that day, then, “Well, there was a fly in my soup or there was a” … Yelp and things like that have already been problematic. But sticking this additional layer of, “Oh, those guys are racists.” There was a time in this country, which I know was a horrible, horrible place and nobody should ever have a moment’s thought about it being good or anything beneficial coming out of it, and hopefully the sarcasm is dripping out of there … It’s got challenges, it has a mixed history, but I wouldn’t say that it’s the worst fucking place in the world as some people would say.

Robb: There was however a time and place in which if you were accused of something, it was on the accuser to prove your guilt, and it has now shifted to we get to prove our innocence. When you look at the places around the world where you have to prove your innocence at the insistence of whether a minority or a majority of people around you insisting that you are guilty, those places are pretty fucked up, and those are nowhere that you really want to live, and that is what we are creating for ourselves. And, again, not a Salty Talk, but it was-

Nicki: It goes beyond … When people can just make that claim, again, to your point, without any proof, what if somebody walked into a restaurant and there were other customers in there wearing t-shirts of a political party that you don’t care or that you associate with racism, and so then you say the establishment is racist because it has racist customers, and it has nothing to do with the management or the service or the quality of the food provided or whatever the business is? It becomes this thing where everyone’s going to get that label at some point.

Robb: Well, and, again, this becomes a thing. If everybody’s a racist, then nobody’s a racist, and then in this effort to be woke and be anti-racist, then you actually make it impossible to do anything about it because it’s literally kind of like the little boy who cried wolf or whatever or the sky is falling. It’s like if you can’t compartmentalize this stuff and really have some standards for, well, what does racism entail and what are we going to do about that and if somebody just shows up in a restaurant in a t-shirt of the political party you don’t like, even though you may not like it, is it really your right and privilege to go to the owner of the restaurant and say, “You need to throw those people out because I don’t like them?” I goddamn sure guarantee that there are people that would want to do that.

Robb: Then, if as a restaurateur who is battling COVID and battling just the continual challenge of keeping a brick and mortar service-based open which operates on tiny margins, whether they agree with the political slogan of … And, again, this is assuming that it’s not overtly horrible or in fact racist, it’s just Trump or Biden, as neutral as it could be, but here’s my political affiliation. Those people are just trying to survive. I don’t think it’s a long stretch to imagine that owner having their feet held to the fire. There was just a story of a police chief that has been forced to step down by their city council and whatnot because the police chief’s wife said that she was going to vote for Trump and there was enough-

Nicki: Because of his support for law enforcement.

Robb: Because of his support for law enforcement. And, again, I don’t know how I fucking turned this into a Salty Talk, but I did. I guess it’s because I am really concerned about this stuff, and I get that folks are just super on edge and they’re super fired up. Again, I’m not even entirely sure how these two stories made their way into my … I think it was actually just looking on the news feature of my phone, like I have been looking at that just to get a little bit of a sample of what’s going on. And those two things kind of leapt out at me. I guess-

Nicki: No, I think our friend who is a restaurant owner sent you the Yelp piece.

Robb: Oh, that’s right, that’s right. That’s true, that’s true.

Nicki: We still get texted and signaled different articles.

Robb: Well, and here’s just a little interesting thing on that. We’re not going to mention who the friend is, but the friend owns a successful restaurant, big urban area. The urban area opened up some interesting options for if a business is Black-owned that there could be some benefits there and-

Nicki: Well, they wouldn’t have to pay … What was it? Was it Uber or some of these delivery places? This was during COVID.

Robb: Were going to waive the-

Nicki: They were going to waive the delivery fee if you purchased-

Robb: And there was some things above and beyond that.

Nicki: … things from a Black-owned restaurant.

Robb: Yeah, but good stuff, great, great.

Nicki: Yep, yep.

Robb: This friend is co-owners of a restaurant. There’s three owners. One of the owners happens to be a Black man, who is also the full-time chef-

Nicki: Chef, mm-hmm (affirmative).

Robb: … in the restaurant. So they applied for this program, they were granted it, and then they got this groundswell of woke people, and I-

Nicki: Saying, “These people shouldn’t qualify for this. It’s owned by white people,” so that they shouldn’t be able to qualify for this special price.

Robb: So they invited these folks in who were saying, “This is not a Black-owned business,” and they said, “You know the dude in the back?” “Yeah, of course, we know the dude in the back. We eat here all the time.” “He’s an owner.” The people looked at them stupefied and first said, “No, that can’t be.” They said, “What, you can’t imagine a Black man who is also a working chef being an owner of a restaurant?” This is where the fucking racism from the woke left, really, it’s just so endemic. And, again, this is probably going to cut my own goddamn head off, and it’s not a Salty Talk, but goddamn it, people need to wake the fuck up with what’s going on in their over the top stuff. So there was a bunch of, “Oh, gosh, we’re sorry. I can’t believe” … And it’s like, well, yeah, fuck you. Yes, there’s all kind-

Nicki: Lots of assumptions.

Robb: Yeah, just assumptions, and you tend to see it from a very specific direction. Again, my only point to bringing this up, this isn’t going to sell a book for me, this isn’t going to get anybody to sign up on the Rebellion, this is probably going to marginalize me in a million different ways, but goddamn it, if we don’t fix this stuff, we’re going to be in a fucking Civil War. If the woke left thinks that that’s a good idea, then fucking let’s just get after it and get that song and dance done and then see what you really think about that, see if you think this place is really as horrible as you think it is before it descends into what Yugoslavia was as it came apart at the seams, and you’re going to wish to be able to rewind the clock. I feel like we’re still in this little narrow sliver of opportunity that we could do something about this.

Nicki: So I feel like the majority of people, us included, are in the center seeing this extreme fringe on the left and the extreme fringe on the right, and you feel stuck, right?

Robb: You do feel stuck. That was that early-

Nicki: What do you do? You don’t identify with either of the big narratives that are out there, and so you’re like, “I feel trapped.”

Robb: That was from The Social Dilemma, the extreme center.

Nicki: Yeah, the extreme center, yeah.

Robb: Which was hilarious in a lot of ways.

Nicki: Yeah.

Robb: Yeah, I mean, early in COVID, there was that beautiful piece, The Politically Disenfranchised.

Nicki: Yeah, that was a great read.

Robb: It was a really beautiful read and-

Nicki: Politically Homeless.

Robb: The Politically Homeless, yeah, yeah. The Politically Homeless, yeah. I don’t know. And, again, I should just be kind of happy-go-lucky and, “Look at my nails,” or, “Look at my hair,” “I have a new line of seasonings,” or whatever the fuck the soup du jour is. I’ve been really good at seeing shit coming down the pipe on a lot of stuff. I told Greg Glassman 10 years in advance almost to the day of when he would have 10,000 affiliates. I’ve done a lot of stuff like that, and I’m not Nostra-fucking-damus, but I’ve been pretty good at this stuff. It’s like a janky old train on a janky old rail that’s heading down a steep embankment, and the train’s not functioning, the rail’s not functioning, and nobody really gives a shit there. If we didn’t have children, I probably wouldn’t give a shit either. I would probably be the one that’s like, “Fuck it, let’s just accelerate this whole process. People think it’s bad right now, let’s see what bad really looks like.” But we do have kids, so I am not that person. I am not doing those things.

Nicki: Again, though, I feel like the people that thinks it’s so bad are the super extreme sides of thing. So I don’t know. I think there’s more to save than not.

Robb: I think there’s far more to save than not. Just to circle this back around, people may give a shrug and like, “Oh, you’re overreacting,” or whatever. But weaponizing things like the ability to mark someone as a racist with no oversight, this is basically supplanting legal process. “Well, our legal system is broken and everything.” Okay, okay, everything can always be improved, but I can find a lot of places where it’s good.

Nicki: A lot worse, yeah.

Robb: A lot worse. I don’t know how to have a conversation around that. It’s like we can always be working towards improvement, but if we only focus on the failure points without an eye towards improvement, if the goal that the person is bringing to the table is burning things down either knowingly or unknowingly, and I would say that Yelp weaponizing their platform to be able to label anybody anywhere a racist, that is moving it towards burning it all down, whether they think so or not. I don’t know. We’re just going to be broadly the recipients of just how bad the-

Nicki: It’s a good thing that you’re only seeing these articles that people are sending you.

Robb: Very intermittently, yeah, yeah. So imagine if I was seeing this stuff all day, all the time, which was kind of-

Nicki: Yeah, where we were before.

Robb: … where the stuff was before. But yeah. Okay.

Nicki: Okay, moving on from our lengthy-

Robb: Very much moving on.

Nicki: … salty intro this episode.

Robb: Yep, yep.

Nicki: What’s our news topic?

Robb: The real news topic du jour, well, funny enough, it kind of feeds into this. Iatrogenics: Why Intervention Often Leads to Worse Outcomes. This is an article that’s talking about some work from Nassim Taleb and from the article, “Iatrogenics is when a treatment causes more harm than benefit, as iatros means healer in Greek, the word means caused by the healer or brought by the healer. Healer in this case need not mean doctor but anyone intervening to solve a problem. For example, it could be a thought leader, a CEO, a government, or a coalition of the willing. Nassim Taleb calls these people interventionalists.”

Nicki: Interventionistas.

Robb: Interventionistas. “Often, these people come armed with solutions to solve the first-order consequences of a decision but create worse second and subsequent order consequences. Luckily for them, at least, they’re never around to see the train wreck they often created.” So, ironically, this does feed into my-

Nicki: Your earlier rant?

Robb: … accidental Salty Talk. I really had this more in mind for some of the COVID-related stuff, just broadly, and I would encourage people to just think through this notion of iatrogenic-induced injury or harm and the possibility that, again and again and again, our interventions to try to improve or fix things oftentimes make things worse. Excuse me. There’s a phenomenal documentary film called Poverty Inc. that talks about the mega-business that has grown up around collecting money to then collect stuff or buy stuff and send it. Like when Haiti was hit by a hurricane, did those folks need a lot of help? Yes. But a lot of the help that was provided actually ended up gutting their local economy, and it’s never recovered.

Robb: There were shoemakers, there were people who raised chickens and sold eggs, and because a big mega-church out of Georgia sent them a bunch of eggs for a year, everybody quit producing eggs. Then when the mega-church ceased sending eggs, there was no longer the infrastructure to do that. So this is just some of that the path to hell is paved on good intentions and just really encouraging people, when they think they’re doing something smart, like, again, you think it may be smart to go burn down a public building because you’re upset over some social issue, maybe that’s a good idea, maybe it’s not. Maybe it is going to have knock-on effects that are completely … Oh, man, I’m having a coughing fit here.

Nicki: You have a tickle in your throat?

Robb: Massive tickle in my throat. Sorry, folks. That the knock-on consequences could be pretty gnarly, and this goes from basic medical interventions … There’s just now some research coming in looking at the excess death over the course of this year versus last year. It looks like COVID legitimately has produced excess death relative to what we would’ve had in a normal run of things between car accidents and stuff like that. But what is down markedly are hospital-related iatrogenic-caused illnesses and problems. So that’s what I had for today. I’m also eyes watering, tickle in my throat. I was right on the edge of getting a cold last weekend, and it’s pretty well wrapped up, but this things tend to finish off with a little dry throat.

Nicki: You’ve had a little throat tickle. Okay. Well, we’ll include a link to that in the show notes.

Robb: And we really are down to six listeners still.

Nicki: Okay. But one of our listeners just won a t-shirt for writing a review for us and for our show. This week, it goes to kelly_mamabear, “Going against the norm in a good way. It is refreshing to hear these real conversations about real life situations. I love how open and real they are. Feels like I’m having a conversation with my friends while mixing in knowledge and education. I feel like this is hitting on so much real life circumstances. Everybody needs to listen.”

Robb: That’s cool.

Nicki: Kelly_mamabear, thank you for your review. Please send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com and include your t-shirt size and your mailing address, and we’ll send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt.

Robb: What more could you ask for?

Nicki: And today’s episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by White Oak Pastures, a six-generation, 154-year-old farm in Bluffton, Georgia. White Oak Pastures is a standout in the regenerative agriculture space. Their beef specifically was shown by a third-party life cycle assessment to be carbon negative. And at White Oak Pastures, they rotate 10 livestock species on open pastures to mimic the predator-prey relationships in nature, which positively impacts the land. They maintain high animal welfare standards and regenerate old mono-crop farmland while rebuilding their rural community. All of their meats are raised, slaughtered, and butchered right on the farm.

Nicki: As I mentioned last time, with the holidays coming up, they do have gift certificates. So if you have a meat-loving person on your holiday list, this is the perfect gift for them. They also have some great gift and stocking stuffer items as well, wildflower honey, tallow products, like tallow lip balm, tallow moisturizer, tallow candles, grass-fed leather totes, and other leather goods. So, again, this is a great … Both for yourself, if you’re looking for a source of regenerative-raised meats, they do ship nationwide, so this would be a great option for you, and then also for anybody on your holiday gift-giving list who is in this paleo, keto, regenerative ag space or is fond of this type of thing, would be a phenomenal gift. Go to-

Robb: I’m looking forward to mine, wife.

Nicki: We’ll see what Santa brings you.

Robb: Thank you.

Nicki: Go to whiteoakpastures.com/robbwolf to shop special bundles made for The Healthy Rebellion Radio listeners. You can use code rebel10 for 10% off your regenerative, grass-fed, and pasture-based meats. If you decide to purchase the gift certificates, the discount code won’t apply, but you can pass along the rebel10 code so your recipient can save when they make their purchase. Again, that’s whiteoakpastures.com/robbwolf, and the code is rebel10.

Nicki: Our first question today comes in from Tyler on eating for kidney disease. He says, “Hey, Robb. Years ago, you wrote a multi-part post about kidney health and mentioned a former client at NorCal Strength & Conditioning who was recommended dialysis. One of your coaches instructed him to eat super low carb and about the same protein, around 10% for both macros, and the rest of his diet consisting of fat. The end result, at least in your article, was that he recovered a great deal of his kidney function. Now that I’ve told you about your own article, LOL, here are my questions. One, is that still a protocol you’d recommend for someone with stage four kidney disease, and, two, if so, what can you even eat on an 80% fat diet?”

Nicki: “This info is for my mother-in-law. She’s almost 70 and has kidney disease, presumably brought on by Henoch-Schonlein purpura. She lives in Japan, so she has access to great quality seafood, but coconut products are uncommon. I’ve been trying to get her to quit eating bread, rice, and soy products as a start. She stil

Meat Viruses, Blunting Muscle Growth, DIY Cryotherapy | THRR051

Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:00:50 GMT

Targeted Ketogenic Carb Sources, Does Cold (Ice) Immersion Blunt Muscle Growth Post Workout, Poor Man’s Cryotherapy, BPH (Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia), Viruses in Meat?

Make your health an act of rebellion. Join The Healthy Rebellion

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Submit your questions for the podcast here

Show Notes:

News topic du jour:

Agri-nutrition research: Revisiting the contribution of maize and wheat to human nutrition and health

“Only relative to other ‘nutrient-rich’ foodstuffs are cereals ‘nutrient-poor’. This terminology reflects the emphasis on micronutrient malnutrition. Most cereals provide varying amounts of proteins, fats, minerals and vitamins, in addition to being important sources of dietary energy.”

“Cereals are the dominant source of carbohydrates in the global diet, providing essential food energy.”

1. Targeted Ketogenic Carb Sources [16:00]

Michael says:

Hi Robb,

Thanks so much for all the work you do. At the beginning of the year I was eating a standard American diet. At the age of 25, I was prediabetic, 50 lbs overweight, and I had no energy, crashing after almost every meal. I’ve been doing keto since March. I’m down 30 lbs despite building considerable amount of muscle from exercise, have gotten from about 30% to under 15% bodyfat, and I’ve never felt better. Over the last few months I’ve been eating more of a carnivore diet with the exception of some berries throughout the day, and I’ve also begun doing Crossfit about 5-6 times a week. I’ve noticed that for longer, endurance workouts I do amazing. For the short, glycolytic, 8-minute workouts I’m nowhere close to where I want to be. I’ve read from your keto masterclass as well as on Ketogains that for Crossfit-like activity that eating carbs just before an intense workout can be helpful. I had two questions on where to get my carbs on a targeted keto diet:

1) Ketogains and many resources recommend dextrose as it goes directly goes to replenishing muscle glycogen. Using ultraprocessed, refined sugar screams against everything I’ve learned about sticking to real food. I want to try rice or potatoes, but do you have thoughts on using ultra-refined substances for glucose as opposed to real food?

2) Many seem to recommend against fruit/fructose because it goes to replenish liver stores rather than muscle stores. Does liver glycogen not make it into the muscles? Is fruit really the bad guy many low-carbs make it out to be?

Thanks so much for the work you two do. My life has changed in more ways than I can describe thanks to the information you put out there.

2. Does Cold (Ice) Immersion Blunt Muscle Growth Post Workout [24:50]

Jayne says:

Hello Rob and Nikki,

I am wondering whether ice-cold bath immersions between sauna sessions post weightlifting might blunt muscle growth effects of my workout? I notice that if I sauna post workout, I almost feel an additional “growth spurt” (if that makes sense!?) but sometimes with the cold bath in between I don’t feel as much benefit. Of course, this could all be in my head, but I’d love your thoughts!

Thanks again for being such great leaders in the world of health and wellbeing. I am constantly refreshing your website in hope of a new salty talk or podcast, I just love them so much!

Thank you both!

Cheers, Jayne x

3. Poor Man’s Cryotherapy [29:35]

Chuck says:

I’m wondering what you think about an idea (not an original idea) I have about how to get cold. I know that several people (Brad Kearns and others) have been using an electric freezer chest and filling it with water. Then cooling the water for cold plunges.

I’ve been thinking about using a freezer chest, keeping it very cold, but not adding water. Not sure if you’ve ever been in a Costco cold room, but I think that effect could be duplicated with this concept. Sort of a poor man’s cryotherapy chamber. Would eliminate the need to clean and change the water. I would only close the top if I was certain it could not lock me in. Perhaps I could use something else to close me in or maybe I wouldn’t need to. I’m also concerned about sticking to the sides.

I’ve been unable to find anything online about the idea and have never seen anything with a live human in a freezer. I think there could be a nice benefit with this approach. I wonder what you think?

Thanks,

Chuck

69 year old rebel with epigenetic biological age 57.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html

Water thermal capacity 24X that of air (generally)

4. BPH (Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia) [39:23]

Ralph says:

I would love to hear if you have talked to any older paleo or keto men about solutions for BPH (Benign prostatic hyperplasia) which most men have to deal with in their late 60s and beyond. Main symptom is needing to pee often which causes problems with sleep. Any ideas for solutions would be greatly appreciated. love the show. thanks. ralph (72 yrs. old)

https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02029/ultra-prostate-formula

Phosphodiesterase Type 5 Inhibitors for the Treatment of Male Lower Urinary Tract Symptoms

5. Viruses in Meat? [43:03]

Julie says:

I recently heard your broadcast on Revolution Health. I do eat meat but I have been avoiding chicken not only because of the inhumane treatment but also the use of antibiotics and most recently the studies that have come out about viruses in chicken meat.

I was relieved to hear that beef might actually be healthier and also environmentally friendly. Now my husband told me about polyomaviruses in beef that can survive cooking temperatures. Is this something that is being studied closely. Is it conclusive? Is there a way to avoid it other than avoiding meet? Do we have to wait for another vaccine like the HPV vaccine before we can safely eat chicken or beef?

I would love to hear a podcast on the subject or a recent study to hear the latest on this topic.

Thanks!

Julie

Polyomaviruses and human diseases

Polyomaviruses are small, nonenveloped DNA viruses, which are widespread in nature. In immunocompetent hosts, the viruses remain latent after primary infection. With few exceptions, illnesses associated with these viruses occur in times of immune compromise, especially in conditions that bring about T cell deficiency.

African Great Apes Are Naturally Infected with Polyomaviruses Closely Related to Merkel Cell Polyomavirus

The Ancient Evolutionary History of Polyomaviruses

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Nicki: It’s time to make your health an act of rebellion. We’re tackling personalized nutrition, metabolic flexibility, resilient aging and answering your diet and lifestyle questions. This is the only show with a bold aim to help one million people liberate themselves from the sick-care system. You’re listening to The Healthy Rebellion Radio.

Nicki: The contents of this show are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast should be considered medical advice. Please consult your licensed and credential functional medicine practitioner before embarking on any health, dietary or fitness change.

Nicki: Warning, when Robb gets passionate he’s been known to use the occasional expletive. If foul language is not your thing, if it gets your bridges in a bunch, well, there’s always Disney+.

Robb: Welcome back rebels. Welcome back wife.

Nicki: Welcome hubs.

Robb: We always do a pre-recording test and some of the shit that we … To make sure that all the stuff is working-

Nicki: To make sure the audio works because we’ve done more than one show where it didn’t record the audio and then you’re just like, shit. We always test the audio.

Robb: Some of the shit that we do in tests … We save a few of them and maybe someday we’ll do an outtake reel on that stuff.

Nicki: Today I realized how I can’t remember lyrics to-

Robb: Much of anything.

Nicki: … much of anything. Least of all the Handlebar song.

Robb: You can’t fade on me here, wife. That’s the only thing holding us together. Sagan, we’ll get your math when we’re done recording. Thank you.

Nicki: We will check your math, yeah. Thank you.

Robb: She just shoved it through the-

Nicki: Through the door.

Robb: … through the slot of our door.

Nicki: Okay. At least she did her math. Let’s see. How else should we kick off this show.

Robb: I don’t know. Clearly, we’re homeschooling from afar. Anything you want to report?

Nicki: Let’s see here. Well, this is the final week of the Rebel Reset so folks are focused on community and trying to maximize improved community in all the ways that one can during the various states of openness and lockdown across the globe.

Robb: One of our admins, Sybil Cooper, who’s a PhD in Immunology, as an aside, Dr. Cooper. She, I believe last reset, went and bought a bunch of fresh food for her local food bank scene.

Nicki: This is this go-around. I think she does it every year.

Robb: I think that that … Talking about community lit a fire under her to do this and then she’s done it again and I think we maybe mentioned this in a previous show. It’s really cool. Even though we’re in a situation where sometimes direct contact can be a little bit more challenging, just doing something good for someone is fantastic. What was that story that you told me about someone being a prick to someone in line at a drive through deal and then the person-

Nicki: Oh, this was another thing that somebody posted and it was a little … We have an off topic channel inside the Health Rebellion community and it was this little meme thing where there’s a line of cars outside of McDonald’s and apparently the person was taking such a long time ordering that the person behind him, she was flipping him off and yelling and getting all frustrated and so he told the person, the-

Robb: Cashier.

Nicki: … the cashier that he wanted to pay for the car behind him and so then they move up a little bit and he can tell that the person behind, when she gets told that the car in front purchased her meal was embarrassed and she’d really overreacted and here this guy is going to buy her meal and then-

Robb: And you’re heading towards this heartwarming-

Nicki: The whole pay it forward, kindness thing. Then when he gets to the next window where you actually take your food he took hers too because he bought it.

Robb: Then she had to get back in line and start the whole thing over.

Nicki: What made you think of that? Oh, community.

Robb: Community. Which sometimes a little community like that is good too. It’s like that heartwarming pay it forward do good by people and then sometimes-

Nicki: Sometimes when people are being told they’re dicks-

Robb: Fuck you.

Nicki: Yeah, that was kind of funny.

Robb: That was a goodie. Yeah. Did you have something you wanted to read from the rebellion?

Nicki: Yeah, I wanted to share a comment from Susan, one of our Healthy Rebellion community members. She said, “It’s 6:00 AM and I’m listening to Healthy Rebellion Radio episode 50 and I have to say that five days with no social media apps on my phone has been awesome. My marriage is even better in just five days. Thank you-

Robb: Is ours any better?

Nicki: I think it is. I don’t know, would you agree?

Robb: I would agree. I would agree. But it was so good before. It’s just hard to compare.

Nicki: It’s nice like … Instead of … Gosh, you think that … I think that we use social media less than the average Joe or Jane, I would say.

Robb: We’ve been.

Nicki: But at the same time, you still use it way more than you think, on your phone.

Robb: And way more than you need.

Nicki: And way more than you need.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: So just having it off of your phone, it’s like, yeah, you can still go and see what’s going on in the world of your, the handful of people that you really care to follow from your desktop but you’re not stuck in that infinite scrolling-

Robb: Just constant scroll and the constant access.

Nicki: … and the need to check. We went to the gym the other day and I forgot my phone and we were in the car and the garage door was closing and I’m like, “Oh shit, I think I left my phone on the counter”, and Robb’s like, “Do you want to go get it?” I’m like, “Nah, I don’t need it.”

Robb: Because if you can’t crack into Instagram or Facebook.

Nicki: There’s nothing I’m going to look at it. Yeah.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: And we’re going to the gym and if something happened Robb had his if we needed to-

Robb: Call a tow truck or something.

Nicki: Yeah, so it wasn’t an issue and I can’t remember the last time I’ve left my phone and not cared.

Robb: It’s funny when your phone is just a phone or maybe a map or maybe a way to check the weather. It’s awesome but it’s not necessarily every five minutes. Yeah, that’s been cool.

Nicki: Yeah. Let’s see. Hubs, what do you have for our news topic today?

Robb: An interesting paper and I’m going to be a jerk here at the beginning and then I’ll try to put a little bit of balance in this. The title of the paper is Agra-nutrition Research Revisiting the Contribution of Maize and Wheat to Human Nutrition and Health. It’s an interesting paper. It’s a mixed bag. There’s some actually really, really good stuff in here. Putting an eye towards sustainability, putting an eye towards some of the EAT-Lancet recommendations. That everybody everywhere should reduce meat consumption and it actually rightly points out that millions of people globally would be exposed to significant food nutrient deficiencies.

Robb: But then there are some absolute shenanigans in this paper and one of the shenanigans, one line, “Only relative to other quote, nutrient rich food stuffs are cereals, quote, nutrient poor. This terminology reflects the emphasis on micronutrient malnutrition. Most cereals provide varying amounts of proteins, fats, minerals and vitamins in addition to being important sources of dietary energy.”

Robb: It is so funny that only relative to dog shit does cat shit not smell good. This is our world. This is the way that you understand things. You order things out in varying degrees of value of significance or impact and this paper is a really interesting mix of this woke sciencism with some otherwise good stuff. Initially I was just going to write this thing off but I read it very carefully and it is so interesting. There’s actually some very good points and then there is just to me, bat shit crazy stuff and it is a absolutely fascinating mix.

Robb: I don’t know that I’ve read anything like this. This is one of the most fascinating scientific papers I have ever seen. We should pass it on the Brett Weinstein and his wife-

Nicki: And Heather.

Robb: … and have them take a peek at it. There’s another piece here. “Cereals are the dominant source of carbohydrates in the global diet providing essential food energy which is true.” Then it went on to basically explain away the fact that people are rarely … Other than … And Diana Rogers and I talked about this and it’s very controversial but in general, lack of adequate calories is mainly a political issue like despots limiting the amount of food that people can get either through open trade or through even food aid. It’s reasonably easy for most people to at least get enough calories at this point. It doesn’t mean that they’re getting adequate nutrition, doesn’t mean that it’s the best diet that they could get but starvation is an outgrowth of political will and forces at this point. Not 100%. There’s exceptions to everything but without a doubt an over consumption of calories absent adequate nutrition, which is actually those two things go hand in hand particularly with regards to protein and this is all the stuff again, that we talked about in Sacred Cow, I really alluded to it a lot in Wired to Eat.

Robb: If we don’t get enough protein, which protein rich foods by extension have all these micronutrients, which these guys are dismissing in here. That is where satiety signaling comes in and we tend to then not overeat. But it was interesting. It was making these cases that we get too granular in talking about things like stunting verus malnutrition versus hypernutrition and all this stuff. It was trying to weave in these points that there are complex socioeconomic factors in there. Yeah, there are and we need quantifiable biological endpoints to be able to assess what those sociopolitical forces mean and how they impact living organisms.

Robb: You are currently reading the Cynical Theories book.

Nicki: Cynical Theories, yup.

Robb: And it’s fascinating. Nikki will read me a couple of pages each day and we can really only handle about two pages of it without your head exploding but it’s unpacking all of this critical theory stuff and it’d be interesting to talk to the authors and I may reach out to these folks and maybe try to do a salty talk with them because I really, and maybe I’m reading into this. This is where just getting one side of a perspective … Maybe they’re really wonderful people and they’re like, oh no I never meant for it to come across that way but it’s such an interesting mix of both reasonable position and also absolutely woo that again, I’m just blown away.

Robb: We have it in the show notes. It’s worth a read. It’s an accessible paper but I would be interested to see other people’s take on this but Diana Rogers actually tagged me on this so I checked it out. Yeah, it’s a goodie.

Nicki: Okay, let’s move on to our t-shirt winner of the week. This week it goes to T-Money Myleus. I don’t know if T-Money is male or female or other but-

Robb: I’m going for male. I don’t see many females degrading themselves, calling themselves T-Money but I don’t know.

Nicki: You never know. “So much helpful information. This podcast is solid with Robb and Nicki breaking down the science so a dummy like me can understand it. They keep their bias in check and always try to present knowledge and information in a fair and balanced way and I get so much from them that helps my own health and gives me more confidence to move forward in this ever changing space.” That’s awesome.

Robb: Cool.

Nicki: Yup. T-Money, thank you for your review. Send us an email to hello@robbwolf.com with your t-shirt size and your mailing address and we will send you a Healthy Rebellion Radio t-shirt.

Robb: And T-Money, thank you for just being you.

Nicki: Thank you all. Thanks to all of our listeners for just being you.

Robb: For being you, yes.

Nicki: Everybody give yourself a hug.

Robb: Give someone else a hug too unless they don’t want a hug. Personal space and all that stuff.

Nicki: Distance, six feet, all that stuff.

Robb: Although if you don’t want a hug, what is that saying about you?

Nicki: It could … Well, it depends. Now it could say that I think you have COVID and I don’t want you coming near me.

Robb: Could mean other stuff too.

Nicki: Yeah, could mean you seem like a creep and I don’t want you coming near me.

Robb: Again, there are deeper implications to that at this point. Can anybody really be a creep? If I want to reject a hug from anybody, is that a problem? Is that a statement about me?

Nicki: Oh dear. This could …

Robb: Just wanted to throw it out there. I’m not looking for an answer. I’m just asking questions.

Nicki: This could get off into the weeds.

Robb: Yeah, yeah.

Nicki: My head is going to a place that I don’t think we want to take this show.

Robb: No. Our intro last time was really, really long so we’ll try to motor through this.

Nicki: We’ll scoot this one along.

Robb: Yeah.

Nicki: Okay. Today’s episode of The Healthy Rebellion Radio is sponsored by White Oak Pastures, a six generation, 154 year old family farm in Bluffton, Georgia. If you’ve been following Robb or listening to our show for any length of time, if you’ve read Sacred Cow, you know how important regenerative agriculture is for improving the land and the health of our planet. White Oak Pastures is a standout in the regenerative agriculture space. Their beef specifically was shown by a third-party life cycle assessment to be carbon negative and at White Oak-

Robb: And real quickly on that, what that means is it pulls more carbon out of the atmosphere, sequesters it underground than what is produced in it’s manufacture.

Nicki: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And at White Oak Pastures they rotate 10 livestock species on open pastures to mimic the predator-prey relationships that are normally found in nature and that positively impacts the land. They maintain high animal welfare standards and regenerate old monocrop farmland while rebuilding their rural community. All of their meats are raised, slaughtered and butchered right on the farm. They also sell organic vegetables, pasture-raised eggs, honey, pet chews, leather items, tallow goods and more artisan products that they make on the farm.

Nicki: With the holidays coming up I just want to mention that White Oak Pastures also has gift certificates so if you have a meat loving person on your holiday list that might be otherwise challenging to buy for, this is the perfect gift that will have them thinking of you with every bite.

Robb: I’m a meat loving person.

Nicki: You are. We often give gift certificates or actually meat bundles as gifts.

Robb: We do.

Nicki: From our favorite farms like White Oak Pastures. Anyway, great idea with the holidays coming up. Go to whiteoakpastures.com/robbwolf. You can shop some special bundles made especially for Healthy Rebellion Radio listeners. You can use code Rebel10 for 10% off regenerative, grass-fed and pasture raised meats. If you decide to purchase the gift certificates the discount won’t apply with your purchase but you can pass along the Rebel10 code so your recipient can save when they make their purchase. Again, go to whiteoakpastures.com/robbwolf and the code is Rebel10.

Robb: Awesome.

Nicki: Okay. Question number one for this week is from Michael and he’s wondering about some targeted ketogenic carb sources. “Hi Robb, thanks so much for all the work you do. At the beginning of the year I was eating a standard American diet. At the age of 25 I was pre-diabetic, 50 pounds overweight and I had no energy, crashing after almost every meal. I’ve been doing keto since March and I’m down 30 pounds despite building considerable amount of muscle from exercise and I’ve gotten from about 30% to under 15% body fat and I’ve never felt better.”

Nicki: That is awesome, Michael.

Robb: That is super cool, yeah.

Nicki: Congrats. That is really, really good.

Nicki: “Over the last few months I’ve been eating more of a carnivore diet with the exception of some berries throughout the day and I’ve also begun doing CrossFit about five to six times a week. I’ve noticed that for longer endurance workouts I do amazing but for the short, glycolytic eight minute workouts I’m nowhere close to where I want to be. I’ve read from your keto masterclass as well as on Ketogains that for CrossFit like activity that eating carbs just before an intense workout can be helpful. I have two questions on where to get my carbs on a targeted keto diet. Number one, Ketogains and many resources recommend dextrose as it goes directly to replenishing muscle glycogen. Using ultra processed refined sugar screams against everything I’ve learned about sticking to real food. I want to try rice or potatoes but do you have thoughts on using ultra refined substances for glucose as opposed to real food? Two, many seem to recommend against fruit and fructose because it goes to replenish liver stores rather than muscle stores. Does liver glycogen not make it into the muscles? Is fruit really the bad guy many low carbers make it out to be? Thanks so much for the work you do. My life has changed in more ways than I can describe thanks to the information you put out there.”

Robb: Really good questions and quite a bit to unpack on this. I came from a similar spot in that when I would think about adding carbs to some sort of ketogenic regimen, whole foods, berries, stuff like that. Whole foods are always better. The interesting thing is I think what is happening here … He said glucose or dextrose, which are the same thing, preferentially tend to refill muscle glycogen which is kind of true. It actually just depends on the status of the muscles versus the liver and some insulin signaling and whatnot. Definitely fructose preferentially fills liver glycogen, which we’ll get to in a minute.

Robb: But the amounts of glucose that people are taking pre-workout to get a bump are really small. It’s five grams, 10 grams, maybe up to 20 grams but it’s a remarkably small amount. This is an opinion piece that could end up being totally wrong but I think what is happening here is more a brain central governor story than the actual amount of carbs consumed. The brain senses our nutrient status, our fuel status, our hormone status clearly also, and when you start a really intense workout like a glycolytic based CrossFit workout even though we are fat adapted and we tend to see mitigations and blood sugar lows because you can shift into ketosis and whatnot, there’s a lag time with that and when you start doing a really hard workout whatever your ambient blood glucose level is, it can drop and the brain still doesn’t like blood sugar changes all that much and so that can be a stress on the body and there have been studies performed where they will exercise people to failure and then they will let them rinse their mouth with a sweet tasting solution that has no calorie content and people will get another five percent out of their maximum effort.

Robb: There’s no caloric content there. It’s just the brain perceiving that there might be some calories there so it’s like okay, we’ll let you go a little more. It’s not going to let you dig such a deep hole that you can’t recover from it. All of that to say, when I look at the … One, I don’t really think that this is really about muscle glycogen or even really liver glycogen in this context of an acute high intensity exercise session. The studies that have been done looking at muscle glycogen biopsies of people that are fat adapted, they’re pretty much on par with where other athletes are. I think that where there is a difference is just in that pre-workout blood glucose energy status and so I tend to side with the Ketogains folks doing something like the dextrose tablets that are commonly sold for diabetics or these little candies called Smarties, which are dextrose and it doesn’t take many of them. The diabetic tablets are usually five grams of dextrose per tab and I used those at Jiu-Jitsu.

Robb: I haven’t used them in a long time actually but the cool thing about that and the cool thing about doing that versus say, a pre-made electrolyte dextrose drink is that once that drink is made that’s it. The ratios are done. Whereas, what we tend to do is use some element and I’ve got that to sip on as needed and then I can throw down dextrose tablets completely separate from that and if it’s a really frisky day of rolling I might end up getting 20 grams of total carbs in. If it’s a more mellow day I may use none but again, I don’t think it has anything to do with muscle glycogen per se. I really think it’s a brain central governor issue.

Robb: The fruit fructose deal. I go back and forth on this. I think I’m kind of in that peri-carnivore realm and I might get 40 grams, 50 grams of carbs some days from fruit, like effective carbohydrate and I feel pretty good on that and I’m just not sold that this is the most evil thing in the world. Like some people say, “Well, once fall or winter starts coming in you’ve got to really cut that stuff out.” I don’t know, maybe but again, looking at the ancestral model is great. I think there’s lot of insight there but somebody doing CrossFit six days a week is actually exercising at both greater volume and intensity than an average hunter/gatherer individual. Is that good or bad? I don’t know. There’s probably different takes on that.

Robb: But it seems reasonable that you could drop in a little bit of fruit in the context of that and there is some interesting reality to topping off liver glycogen is bad in the context of overeating. Topping off liver glycogen in the context of mitigating a stress response because ever decreasing liver glycogen and muscle glycogen, we will get a greater stress response. Cortisol, epinephrine, trying to goose more energy typically out of the liver so having a little bit of that topped off pre or post training, it doesn’t freak me out and this is where doing a little bit of blood work to just monitor triglycerides and A1C and all that stuff seems completely reasonable but again, there are some people that are like, “You should never eat fruit ever”, and clearly we have fruitarians that that’s the only thing that you should eat. There are people that succeed at both ends of that spectrum so I would just do some tinkering in that realm but …

Robb: Did I miss anything? Is there anything else I should do on that? I think that’s the bulk of it.

Nicki: I think that was the bulk of it. Yeah, he’s mainly doing berries throughout the day, which seems completely reasonably especially giving his activity level.

Robb: Yeah, for sure, for sure.

Nicki: Just keeping it seasonal and local if possible.

Robb: Yeah. Right now we are phasing out of the melon … We did a lot of melon over the summer, particularly for the girls.

Nicki: The girls can put the hurt on the watermelon.

Robb: Yeah. Now we’re shifting more into apples and citrus. Ironically though the apples, which are higher fructose, the girls would eat 10 apples a day if we’d let them but they’ll just go wild on them and then they get a tummy a

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The Paleo DietÂ â Robb Wolf on Paleolithic nutrition, intermittent fasting, and fitness