exchristian.net

Journalist looking for named/anon interviews on experience of sex and relationship teachings at UK churches

Fri, 29 Oct 2021 21:08:27 +0200

By Ellie ~

Hi all. I'm a UK journalist and ex-Christian with experience of UK purity culture in the Church of England and evangelical church/events.

I'm keen to speak to men and women 25-40 who experienced purity culture at church as children or young people about its impact on them, with a view to sharing those experiences anonymously in a feature for a UK title. Your stories would run alongside coverage of a story-gathering project at a major US university about the impact of purity culture, and a research PhD about the UK experience of purity culture. Sharing experiences of UK purity culture feels important to me, and seems like something that hasn't been done yet. I can share a bit more about my portfolio and experience as a journalist if you'd like to hear that before going ahead but to summarise, I have about 10 years' experience as a journalist, and three or four years' experience working closely with case studies on personal stories.

If you'd like to hear more, you can reply in-thread in the forums at https://ex-christian.net or message me directly using the forums messaging feature. Thanks for your interest.

The Great Grab Bag: Religious Diversity and Its Implications

Thu, 07 Oct 2021 21:08:56 +0200

By Barrett Evans ~

There’s no subject on which there is more difference of opinion among both the learned and the ignorant. But in this medley of conflicting opinions one thing is certain. Though it is possible that all of them are false, it is impossible that more than one of them is true. —Cicero (106-43 BC), The Nature of the Gods

Confidence in religious belief begs to be reconsidered when the sheer diversity of religious thought and practice is understood. While enumeration of the groups, sects, schools, doctrines, gods, scriptures, and practices of religions is inherently imprecise and subject to reclassification, it is nonetheless true that there have been many thousands of religious manifestations with myriads of differing supernatural beliefs positing thousands upon thousands of divinities. Though it is difficult to provide a representative picture of the true scope of this diversity, it has been so broad that it seems fair to say that it has only been restricted, in the words of one psychology of religion text, “by the structure and capacities of the human body and by the outer boundaries of human inventiveness.” While individual believers are often called to confidence or even certainty in specific religious beliefs or expressions, the innumerable variety of choices would seem to render the likelihood of reliable, comprehensive religious opinions as statistically negligible—even assuming that one of the options was known to be correct.

What follows is a somewhat eclectic list of facts and numbers which help quantify the incomprehensibly vast and complex religious alternatives that have been part of human religious experience:

0—There are multitudes of religions and sects that have appeared and thrived only to eventually lose all their adherents. Among the many dead world religions are the ancient Greek, Scythian, Babylonian, Hittite, Norse, Mithraic, and Celtic religions. One interesting defunct Christian group is the Messalians, a Trinitarian sect that eschewed the sacraments, devoted themselves assiduously to prayer, and existed from the fourth to perhaps the ninth century. From the Protestant tradition, one quirky example is the Muggletonians, a non-Trinitarian sect from England that lasted from 1652 to 1979.
2—A schism in Jainism between the Digambaras (sky-clad) and the Shvetambaras (white-clad) focused on whether it was permissible for monks to wear clothes and which scriptures were authentic. Two major historical sects within Zoroastrianism were Zurvanism and Mazdakism.
3—The Donatist Church of North Africa, which held that salvation was only possible within its fold, had at least three schisms: the Maximianists, the Rogatists, and the Claudianists. Not an insignificant sect, as many as 310 Donatist bishops gathered to denounce the Maximianist subsect in 394.
5—The Digambara Jains are divided into at least five subsects—Bisapantha, Terapantha, Taranapantha, Gumanapantha, and Totapantha. The ancient Sumerians had a great number of gods—but the five chief among them were the sky-god An, air-god Enlil, water-god Enki, mother-goddess Inanna, and her consort Dummuzi.
7—Though frequently described as monotheistic, Zoroastrianism has a group of seven lesser or derivative divine beings known as the Heptad or the amesha spentas. There are seven general categories of texts in the immense Hindu canon of Scripture: Vedas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads, Epics, Sutras, and Puranas.
8—Ancient Egyptians had a large pantheon of gods that included these eight: Anubis (the jackal-headed god), Horus (the falcon-headed god), Thoth (the ibis-god), Amon-Re (the sun-god), Osiris (a god of vegetation), Set (Osiris’ step-brother), Isis (the wife of Osiris), and the Pharaohs. The Baha’i religion, traditionally believed to be founded in 1844, believes in the following eight prophets or “Manifestations of God”: Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, and Baha’u’llah (1817-1892).
13—There are thirteen main sects in “sectarian” Shinto. Dozens of movements have emerged from these thirteen forms. Some examples are the ascetical Shugendo, the Urabe, the Watarai, the Confucian-oriented Yoshikawa, Kurozumi-kyo, Suiga, Sanno-ichijitsu, and Minkan.
14—According to one enumeration, there were at least fourteen creeds created during the 4th-century Arian controversies in the Catholic Church. These include not only the original Nicene Creed, but also four different creeds of Sirmium and four different creeds of Antioch. One creed with Arian tendencies was known as the “Blasphemy of Sirmium” by its detractors.
16—There have been many different Sikh sects and movements including the following sixteen: Khalsa, Sanatan, Namdharis, Nirmalas, Udasis, Seva-panthis, Asali Nirankaris, Nakali Nirankaris, Radnasoamis of Beas, Sahaj-dharis, Nihangs, Bhai Randhir Singh da Jatha, Damdami Taksal, Sikh Dharma of the Western Hemisphere, Sant Nirankari Movement, and various Sant movements.
18—The traditional number of original Buddhist sects numbered eighteen. Only the Theravada school remains out of these original groups. Mahayana Buddhism was a later development—and there are now a vast variety of sects and communities in Mahayana Buddhism which include the major groupings of Pure Land, Tantric, and Zen schools.
19—Baylor University’s Baptist Studies Center for Research notes 19 different classifications of American Baptists (although there are certainly more). Theological differences include the predestinarian beliefs of Primitive Baptists, the Sabbatarian views of Seventh Day Baptists, progressive gender and sexuality beliefs of the Alliance of Baptists, the charismatic leanings of the Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church, and the civil rights focus of the Progressive National Baptist Convention.
21—The Roman Catholic Church recognizes 21 Ecumenical Councils. (The Eastern Orthodox recognize seven, Oriental Orthodox three, and Assyrian Church of the East only one.) There are 21 “main groups” or denominations of Amish and Mennonites in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
24—The Talmud describes 24 competing Jewish sects.
Dozens—There have been dozens of Taoist schools and sects over the centuries. Among these are the Celestial Masters school, the Perfect Realization school, the Great Purity School, the Ling Bao, Heavenly Mind, Divine Highest Heaven, Great Oneness Taoism, the Five Pecks of Rice sect, the Sacred Jewel sect, the Heavenly Masters sect, the Highest Pure sect, and many other groups collectively described as Spirit Cloud Taoists.
33—There numbered 33 gods in early Vedic Hinduism. Among these were Indra (warrior and storm god), Agni (fire god), and Varuna (sky and water god). Modern Hinduism posits thousands of deities—although some conceptions of the faith describe it as monotheistic.
40—A bronze model of a sheep’s liver made by the Etruscans, known as the liver of Piacenza, is divided into forty regions—each one belonging to a different god. The number of Sufi orders has been traditionally numbered at
40—although there are certainly more. There are also approximately 40 different types of Amish affiliations.
46—Scholar Yu-hsui Ku (1902-2002) noted 46 sects of Zen Buddhists in Japan.
70+—Muslim scholar Al-Ghazali (c.1058-1111) noted that there were “seventy-odd sects” in Islam, but only one would be saved. The two main divisions in Islam are the Shiites and Sunnis. Shia or Shiite Muslims have multiple groupings and subgroupings such as the “Fivers” (Zaydis), “Seveners” (Ismailis), and “Twelvers” (Imami). Sufis, typically regarded as the mystics of Islam, have often been at odds both theologically and devotionally with their stricter and more legalistic co-religionists; however, they have operated in the bounds of both the Shiite and Sunni umbrellas. Other Islamic groups have included the Kharijites (which at one point were divided into as many as 20 different groups), Ahmadis (who believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was the Mahdi and Messiah), black Muslim groups in the United States like the “Nation of Islam,” Quranists (who reject the hadith), Khubmesihis (who thought that Jesus was more important than Muhammad), Qadarites (who believe in free will), and the more rationalist Mu’tazilites. There are also various believers who have been more influenced by Western values who term themselves "Progressive Muslims.” According to one religion text, there have been “literally thousands of sectarian groups” within the general confines of Islam
80—Church father Epiphanius (c.315-403) cites 80 different types of heresies in his Panarion.In his 1864 Syllabus of Errors, Pope Pius IX outlined a series of 80 errors and heresies pertaining to modern liberal ideas and philosophies (like freedom of religion and the press). Interestingly, some of these claimed errors appear to be embraced in the teachings of the Vatican II Council (1962-1965).
100—Baha’u’llah (1817-1892) produced over 100 volumes of scripture that Baha’is regard as sacred. 1

100+— There are perhaps 100 to 200 Presbyterian denominations in Korea alone. Controversies related to Shintoism, theological liberalism, ecumenism, and clergy corruption have all apparently contributed to the schisms.
103—According to Liu Xiang (77-6 BCE), there were 103 Confucian schools of thought in the 1st century BCE.
112—The Hindu Scriptures known as the Upanishads are about 112 in number. If all the known Upanishads were gathered together, they would be about as long as the Bible.
128—In the fourth century, the bishop Filastrius of Brescia catalogued 128 heretical groups.
Hundreds—There are “literally hundreds” of small, independent sacramental groups in the United States that have branched off from Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican communions—and that show a variety of traditionalist, feminist, New Age, Quaker, Gnostic, Protestant, charismatic, and other influences. There are also hundreds of “Cargo Cults” in Micronesia which frequently contain beliefs that “spiritual agents will, at some future time, bless the believers with material prosperity (which, in turn, will usher in an era of peace and harmony).” Perhaps the most famous cargo cult is that of John Frum, whose adherents build faux landing strips in hopes of being blessed with material goods.
370—Although some could be variant names for the same deities, there are over 370 known names of Celtic gods and goddesses.
400—The Mormons have had at least 400 different denominational groups since 1830. The five most prominent of these are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (main or Brighamite group), Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonites), Church of Christ (Temple Lot), Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Strangites), and the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or Community of Christ (organized by Joseph Smith’s son, Joseph Smith, Jr.).
401—There are 401 Orishas or gods in the myths of the Yoruba people of Nigeria.
1,500—The Taoist canon known as the Daozang is comprised of approximately 1,500 separate works.
2,290—Not to be confused with the lengthy Pāli Canon of Theravada Buddhism or the extensive Tibetan Buddhist Canon, the immense Chinese Mahayana Buddhist Canon, commonly called the Taishō Shinshū Daizōkyō, contains literally thousands of works.
10,000—According to the 2001 World Christian Encyclopedia, there are “at least 10,000 distinct and different religions” currently in existence.
36,000—The ancient Chinese concluded that 36,000 gods dwelled in the human body.
47,000—According to a 2019 report from Gordon-Conwell Seminary, there are currently 45,000 Christian denominations in existence and there will likely be 64,000 by 2050.
8 million—Traditionally, Japanese believers have claimed that there are 8 million Kami, or divine beings of Shintoism.
Countless/uncountable—There are innumerable Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in Mahayana Buddhist belief—among the most popular are Amitabha, the future “messiah” figure Maitreya, Avalokiteśvara, Samantabhadra, and Mañjuśrī. Traditional African religions and Chinese folk religions posit so many gods that they are difficult to even count.

These types of religious facts demonstrate that all people—albeit in differing degrees and in different ways—have religious doubts. Even those who are very religiously or supernaturally inclined could of course not accept all the religious ideas and perceptions stated or implied by such information—in part because many aspects of different religions are distinct, discordant, or even flatly contradictory. And while broader and more ecumenical perspectives endeavor to be more inclusive, they not only lack uniformity among themselves, but are also necessarily at odds with multitudes of more narrow approaches that deny such liberality. In other words, a significant degree of religious doubt is a universal human trait. So, while doubting specific religious teachings can at times make one feel like an outsider in a particular community, it is helpful to remember how natural and even inevitable religious doubt is to the human experience. The famous words of Enlightenment philosopher and author Voltaire (1694-1778) seem to provide a proper perspective on this perennial human struggle: “Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.”

Hashtags:

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#freethought

Author blurb: A former Protestant seminarian and ex-Roman Catholic, Barrett Evans is now skeptical of traditional dogmas but retains a fascination with certain non-supernatural aspects of spirituality. For more meditations combining spirituality and skepticism (and for further sources for this meditation), see his book The Contemplative Skeptic: Spirituality for the Non-Religious and the Unorthodox. You can follow him on Twitter at @ContemplativeS4.

Before and After

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:19:07 +0200

By Carl S ~

One man made a very astute observation. He said before the ten commandments came to be, there were tribes. Mankind, therefore, already had social laws in place. People co-operated, loved, cared for, and supported one another. So who needed commands from one more invented invisible deity? All of this natural morality existed before the ten commandments. But what happened after them?

What about that Golden Calf story? It's in Exodus 32, if you're wondering. Long story short, after the Israelites are delivered out of Egypt, they make a stopover near Mt. Sinai, and Moses, the leader, goes up the mountain alone to speak with the “god” no one has seen. He's up there so long, it looks like he's skipped out on them. They're bored, and ask the second-in-command man to fabricate this god upstairs into an image representing that “god.” After he does (here again, according to Moses alone), the “invisible god” on the mountaintop tells Moses he's pissed off and is going to destroy the lot of them. Moses says he talked him out of doing this, arguing it would be bad for “god's p.r.” if the Egyptians passed it around, “their god only delivered them so he could wipe them out in the desert.” Nice move.

Moses just happened to be just another self-ordained god-spokesman, a.k.a. nut jobNow Moses just happened to be just another self-ordained god-spokesman, a.k.a. nut job, another one of those who go off as hermits with brains cooked and hallucinating in the searing desert heat, hearing their “god” speaking to them. (And he had over a month to spend chiseling letters in rocks.)

To continue, Moses, in a huff, and after 40 days away from his people, goes down the mountain and sees the people singing and dancing! Enjoying themselves! He breaks those ten commandments tablets he claims were written by “god,” (one of them being, “You shall not kill”), and makes the people eat the dust made from the idol he pulverized. As if that weren't punishment enough for idolatry, he tells the men from the tribe of Levi, “Thus says the Lord: grab your swords, go to and fro through the encampment, and “each one of you kill his brother, his companion, and neighbor.” Now just picture this taking place! Tallying up the slaughter, it's claimed “only” 3000 were killed. Compare that to the number of victims on 9/11/2001. Thank you, Lord.

Now, I myself don't believe a word of this story. To begin with, the ancient Egyptians, who kept meticulous inventory of day to day events at that time, never mentioned Moses or the Israelites being in Egypt. I couldn't care less, but millions of people believe this wacko story. I'm writing about it to point out something. Read the section following Moses's descent from the mountain to any believer, and that believer will have no problem accepting what followed. But think about this: before the commandments, the tribes came together and co-operated to make their journey. Families, husbands, wives, children, slaves, etc. After the ten commandments, after they “got religion,” then the slaughter of one another began. And no believer has a problem accepting this outcome.

Ten Thought Patterns that Trip Up Former Bible Believers

Tue, 29 Jun 2021 19:06:13 +0200

By Valerie Tarico ~

Perhaps it’s been years or even decades since you left biblical Christianity behind. You may have noticed long ago that there are human handprints all over the Good Book. It may have dawned on you that popular Christian versions of heaven would actually be hellish. You may have figured out that prayer works, if at all, at the margins of statistical significance—that Believers don’t avoid illness or live longer than people who pray to other gods or none at all. You may have clued in that Christian morality isn’t so hot and that other people have moral values too. (Shocking!) You may have decided that the God of the Bible is a jerk—or worse.

But some habits of thought are hard to break. It is a lot easier to shed the contents of Christian fundamentalism than its psychological structure.

Here are ten mental patterns that trip up many ex-Christians even when we think we’ve done the work of moving on. None of these are unique to former Christians, but they are reinforced by Bible-belief and Christian culture, which can make them particularly challenging for recovering believers.

All or nothing thinking. In traditional Christian teachings, no sin is too small to send you to hell forever. You’re either saved or damned, headed for unthinkable bliss or unthinkable torment, with nothing in between. Jesus saves only because he was perfect. Moderate Christians are “lukewarm.”

This kind of dichotomous black-and-white thinking seeps into us directly from Bible-believing Christianity and indirectly from cultures that are steeped in Protestantism. Sports? Enjoying the activity isn’t enough; you need to be all in. No pain no gain. Work? You’re a real worker only if you get back on the computer after dinner. Bragging rights start at 60 hours per week. Political? The more absolutist your proclamations, the more you’ll gain a following.
Good guys and bad guys. One consequence of black-white thinking is that we put people into two mental boxes—good guys and bad guys. You are either with us or against us, a patriot or a socialist, an anti-racist or a racist, one of us or one of them. Disagreement becomes synonymous with schism and heresy.

When we discover the personal failings of a public figure like Bill Gates, we may move them from one box to the other, good guy to bad guy. Christianity offers no mental model in which people are complicated and imperfect but basically decent—we are just fallen (“utterly depraved” in the words of Calvin) and either washed in the blood or tools of Satan.
Never feeling good enough. Since we are acutely aware of our own failings, it can be hard internally to stay out of the bad-guy box. Some of us toggle between “I’m awesome” and “I suck.” Others have a nagging internal critic that tells us nothing we do is ever quite good enough. After all, it isn’t perfect, and that’s the biblical standard.
Hyperactive guilt detection. Biblical Christianity gives tremendous moral weight to all of this, and the practice of “confessing our sins one to another” turns believers into guilt-muscle body builders. We live in a world of shoulds and should-nots, and in the Protestant ethic, those daily failings are moral failings. A nagging sense of guilt can become baseline normal, with little bursts of extra guilt as we notice one thing or another that we have left undone or goals where we have fallen short.
Sexual hangups. For many former Christians, particularly for women or queer people but also straight guys who like sex, it’s impossible to talk about guilt without talking about sex, because sexual sins are the worst of the worst. When it comes to the Bible, getting and giving sexual pleasure are more matters of temptation than of intimacy and delight. Idolatry and murder share the top 10 list with coveting your neighbor’s wife. Then there’s virgin-madonna-whore trifecta. And don’t forget God hates fags.
Living for the future. Sexual intimacy isn’t the only kind of pleasure that biblical Christianity devalues; the consecrated life focuses broadly on the future rather than the moment. The small every-day wonders that comprise the center of joy in mindful living are mere distractions for a person who has their eye on the prize of heaven. As former believers grow convinced that each person gets one precious life, those individual moments can become treasures. But the habit of focusing on the future can make it really hard to center in the moment, breathe in, and bask in the ordinary beauties and delights around us.
Bracing for an apocalypse. Even worse than being drawn by the lure of heaven is being braced constantly for some impending apocalypse. We may no longer expect a Rapture or the Mark of the Beast or Jesus riding in on a horse. But the idea of a cataclysmic disruption in history looms large nonetheless. A sense of nuclear doom or pandemic doom or overpopulation doom or underpopulation doom may nudge us to action or be paralyzing. Either way, the experience is very different from being driven by a sense of curiosity and discovery as we face the unknown.
Idealizing leaders. Living in a cloud of anxiety makes us more susceptible to demagogues and authoritarians, people who exude confidence we lack, who convey that they know what’s right and true and how to solve problems. They prey on our fears and on our desire to do good and be good. They prey on our sense of ourselves as sinners and tell us how to atone. (Sound familiar?) They prey on dichotomous thinking, reinforcing our sense that people who don’t share our worldview must be evil and so must be silenced or defeated.
Desperately seeking simplicity. Biblical Christianity tells a story about us as individuals and about human history that is clear and simple. Multi-dimensional causality? Moral ambiguity? Conflicts with no good side and bad side—just sides? Problems with no right answer? Blurry boundaries between human beings and other sentient species? No thanks!

Fiction from Western cultures often mirrors and reinforces older Christian templates and tropes and specific types of oversimplification. And it’s all to easy to project these in turn onto the hard-to-parse and hard-to-solve challenges of the real world. We know deep down that things aren’t so simple, but it’s easy to act as if we live in a world of saints and sinners, elves and orcs.
Intrusive what-ifs. And so we struggle, with new and old interpretations of reality and thought habits competing in our brains. We tell ourselves it’s ok; that we’re ok. But often nagging doubts persist. What if I’m wrong? Many years ago I told a therapist that I didn’t believe in the Christian god anymore, but I didn’t talk to anyone about it because I didn’t want to take them to hell with me. He laughed and I laughed at myself, but it also felt very real.

The journey out is . . . a journey. Along the way people second guess themselves, especially if Bible-belief got inside when they were young. Years after quitting a former smoker may crave a cigarette. That doesn’t mean they were wrong to quit. It just means those synaptic connections got hardwired, soldered in place, and some of them are still there.

In the real world, growth is gnarly. It happens in fits and starts, with forward leaps and sideways turns and backward skids and times of stasis. Change is rarely linear. Flip-flopping often serves truth-seeking. Certitude is rarely a virtue. We seldom know where we are headed. Nonetheless, sometimes we can look back and say with confidence, Not that. I may not know exactly what is true and right and real, but there are some things I can rule out.

I often find myself quoting one former Bible believer who made a comment but left no name: I would rather live with unanswered questions than unquestioned answers. Embracing uncertainty about the future and the big questions frees us to live more in the small delights of the near and present—a nest of blue jays, a hug, the smell of butter on toast. That may be as good as it gets.

Valerie Tarico is a psychologist and writer in Seattle, Washington. She is the author of Trusting Doubt: A Former Evangelical Looks at Old Beliefs in a New Light and Deas and Other Imaginings. Her articles about religion, reproductive health, and the role of women in society have been featured at sites including The Huffington Post, Salon, The Independent, Quillette, Free Inquiry, The Humanist, AlterNet, Raw Story, Grist, Jezebel, and the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies. Subscribe at ValerieTarico.com.

Freedom and Peace

Mon, 12 Apr 2021 16:51:00 +0200

By Blackfreethought ~

It is such a relief to know my actions do not have eternal consequences. My mistakes will not condemn me to damnation and my good deeds will not propel me into heavenly bliss. I live each day recognizing the frailty of my humanity and that strengthens me to do the best I can to improve conditions in the world while I possess the mental capacity and vision.

My life is much sweeter because I understand that I am responsible for its outcome, although many things lie beyond my control. The gods do not wrestle over the fate of my soul, since neither my soul or the gods exist. My existence is not a battleground for good versus evil, where my mind is the prize.

I no longer attempt to justify life rules that do not fit my intrinsic values. I do not have to explain why I follow a religious system, largely responsible for the ills facing my community. I can freely embrace the historical facts and pursue other interests.

My life is much sweeter because I understand that I am responsible for its outcome, although many things lie beyond my control. This is the only life I have and I am getting older. I do not need the words of Scripture to encourage me during a difficult time, I would rather have the companionship and connection with loved ones. I may get ill and fall victim to a cruel disease, but I will continue to do my best while I am able. I will not require prayers or prophecies for encouragement if I am in that spot. I hope to live a long and fruitful life. I get comfort when recognize that a god or church will not use me as a test case for or against faithfulness to a Christian belief system.

I do not have the time nor the energy to invest my time believing in a faith tradition promising freedom, but constructed on lies and oppression. Justice and equity will not come from above, they must come from the activities of people who desire to see people living their best lives. The systems of religion only get in the way of human progress, although I acknowledge that good people also contribute, in spite of their religious persuasion.

The realization of these and other ideas allow me to rest easier and find a zone of peace because I am free from religious dogma and beliefs. I am a humanist and atheist.

What is our Anger About?

Mon, 05 Apr 2021 16:07:26 +0200

By Yak ~

I want to talk about anger. Just a short spin through these forums reveals a constant undercurrent of strong anger. I don't believe that our anger is misplaced, and I think it is definitely justified. Real or threatened loss, including betrayal and deception is a strong basis for anger. But, being both a mildly introspective non-theist and counseling professional, I have to ask questions about our anger.

My questions are: (don't spit blood; read it through) Are we angry because we wish it (god) really exists? Are we really angry because we were told that there was a real "father" who actually "cared" for us, the way we had hoped as children? Perhaps like a dad who would back us up and soothe our hurts, listen and dispense wisdom when we were confronted by the vagaries and ugliness of life? But then, we inevitably discovered or finally admitted to ourselves that what we were told isn't true. In other words, we were deceived, got let down or betrayed. Of course, everyone eventually discovers that this divine conception isn't true, some taking longer than others to reach the point of discovery, but the discovery is made despite denials. Always.

There's a whole host of other ridiculous religious doctrines and convoluted teachings. Enough in fact to spark all the arguments we engage in on this site. Let's set those aside for this one and focus on the ones that are at the core of our disappointment: we were told someone/something cared for us but found that to be a lie.

I've been one of the most outspoken of us. My own anger --even rage-- seemed unbounded, and I can say that my rancor has been powered to a large degree not by the philosophical arguments of divine non-existence, but by the profound disappointment of being let down. Yes, I do agree that the idea of the existence of such a being is deeply troubling, but I think the focus of our anger is more about "why don't you exist" and "why do the stories persist that build up a deep hope that is ultimately dashed" rather than about our philosophical notions. In short, when we got let down, we got hurt. Many of us experienced far more dire consequences of religion, and we recognize the validity of those horrible experiences. However, I'm looking into what appears to be a more universal common denominator that arises from the text in the thousands of posts that so many have shared on this site.

Being honest about the matter, my anger is constantly re-vivified each time I read about, hear or see some human who has been deluded, damaged or killed by their own beliefs in some kind of divinity, or through the beliefs of someone else. (I see such damaged individuals daily in my practice)

We have a deep, animal need to feel protected, heard, helped and comforted. This is normal and is especially and immediately relevant to us due to the presence of uncertainty and threat in our environment. From the time we are born, we're hardwired to look to someone to fill that deep need. We humans devised god(s) to fill that need and proceeded to build many stories to support it. Not surprisingly, when people began discovering that it didn't exist to help the way we had hoped and, as a way of trying to explain why terrible things happened around us and to us, we had to distort the story and make the "father" we hoped for into the mixed bag caring-but-uncaring, benevolent-but-malevolent, unconditional-but-conditionally loving "father" that is clearly taught by several world religions. While ultimately clumsy in its execution, it's an understandable attempt at making sense of the stark and the often brutal divergence between the story we constructed and our experience of reality.

So, we're back where we started. But, due to distortions in the narrative, and the pain of our own unmet childhood need, we may wish it did exist but are faced with the universal experience that we, in fact, are on our own. Hence, our sense of loss at being let down.

Are we angry because we wish it (god) really exists? It makes me both sad and happy because this painful experience of realization, once accepted (and that is by no means a simple or quick task --can I get an amen?), actually means that you and I are growing into the humans that we actually are meant to be --frail but strong, feeling lonely but never alone because we have each other, and able to a greater or lesser degree to handle life's vagaries. When we begin to accept the universe around us as a world of wonder, replete with the entire spectrum of experiences, from good to bad, including happiness and suffering, life and death --we finally let go of the apron strings and learn to stand on our own. It's only then that we can truly see and engage with others around us and "get" that this is the way life is meant to be lived. We stop focusing on our dream of how it could be and can begin living in the reality of our situation.

Those who cling to their childhood, need it the strongest and refuse to relinquish it are, understandably, the loudest deniers and sometimes the most dangerous and damaging to themselves and others. It's a case of "the childish will run riot." Their "tests of faith" and odd notions of "divine judgment" and supporting doctrines are remarkably consistent with the thinking of children between the ages of 5 and maybe 9, a time of life when concrete, all-or-nothing thinking is normal. After that age of course, humans are geared to begin confronting the world with its unpleasantness and not knowing, not having a quick answer to every problem, and the reality of uncertainty, which is a hallmark of life. All-or-nothing thinking is no longer age-appropriate by then, but those who are the most afraid and needy will cling to it giving rise to the oft quoted maxim when referring to those who are still trapped by religion, 'never underestimate the power of denial.' For those of us who hung on to the untrue story the hardest and longest, our anger is the strongest because the loss seems the greatest. And that makes sense. However, we needn't hide behind our anger with lavish arguments; we need only accept and express our anger at our loss so we can finally let go of what are now unrealistic childish needs and begin living as whole, integrated adult humans. Our philosophical arguments can then turn into mind candy to be bantered about vigorously, but without the added internal sting of needing to assuage the deep betrayal that we feel because we realized that were told to accept a painful untruth. Arguing ideas is so much more fun and instructive when they're unclouded by pain.

I think the process of growing through the worst of our childhood need for someone bigger to run to when we feel alone, hurt or uncertain is part of maturation. We're also learning to look within ourselves for answers and looking across to other humans for the understanding and the comfort we seek instead of looking "up" to someone who isn't there. We finally stop looking at the disconnected, static-distorted image of a divinity that fades in and out like on an old TV set and look around us and see life, ourselves and others clearly. We discover that we can talk with others and work through most of our problems or dilemmas. We discover that we provide the only protection we have. We move on. So. Yes. We get angry when we experience a real or threatened loss --and the realization that we do not now nor have we ever had a big daddy to turn to, despite being assured "he" was there, qualifies as a real loss, a legitimate reason for our anger.

But, and this is the lucky bit for us, this is a part of growing up and becoming a complete human. I'm glad to be human, only human, and that you are here with me, sharing this patently human adventure. I remember this happy fact when the noisy theists rehash their worn out arguments, trying to inflict guilt while exposing their own unmet needs and pain that they haven't found the courage to face and outgrow. They're afraid but still dangerous to those around them. They deserve our compassion, as we would have compassion for a frightened child who won't let go of the door going into the dentist's office.

I say in answer to the questions I started with: yes, we're angry because we were deceived. It is loss and justifiably so. So, let's be angry, take the time to work through it and get on with being grown up and free and let's do it together.

Your thoughts?

Is Eternal Life a Fate Worse Than Death?

Tue, 16 Mar 2021 21:09:59 +0200

By Carl S ~

I live in a country with a motto “In God We Trust” on its currency. It's a stupid motto, since the “God” it refers to, as every Christian child is taught, out of all the gods, is the only one who is “creator of Hell,” and therefore, never to be trusted. Any nation which unquestionally accepts this slogan is an unthinking nation. Let's just take a look at this “Hell.”

Have those who claim to believe in Hell really thought about Hell? Have they thought of what it's like to suffer intense unremitting pain, so the only ways out are in pain killers, opium, inebriation, and if it goes on, insanity and/or death, even by suicide? You'd do anything to escape pain like that. Some pet owners, when the only future for their pets will be hopeless suffering, choose to have them euthanized. Those who get bored with inflicting torture will kill their victims. The objects of torture eventually become used-up pieces of crap to them, They're no more fun.

So isn't Hell evidence this god has failed?Faith is a habit of denial and avoidance. It's willful ignorance. And yet it is held up as something to be respected! As Eric Hoffer said, “It's startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.” But the god of Christianity will never have enough satisfaction in torturing.. He tortures by delegating. Which makes him Satan. You can beg for mercy all you want, but the torturing won't stop. You're ignored and forgotten and left to suffer for as long as he wants you to, and that means forever. For what? Those who worship and praise their alleged “all-loving and all-merciful father,” accept his Hell without blinking an eye. If Hell is hopeless, it makes its creator/maintainer, also hopeless. They are proud of this? Somebody should teach them to think about their Hell.

Unthinking people believe their god is almighty, though he's unable to influence the mind of a man enough to convince him without a doubt he truly exists, so he's sent to Hell for not believing! That's fucked up. So isn't Hell evidence this god has failed? (As in one of my past posts, “How to Read Scriptures,“ he admits to failing.) If Hell still is acceptable, then this particular god is incapable of learning why keeping it in operation is a horrible mistake. Hell just must be absolutely forever since its god is: “yesterday, today, and the same, forever.” You can’t have one without the other. Doesn't this mean those who defend him, no matter what evils he creates or inflicts, are also incapable of learning? Something’s wrong with their minds.

From Philip Appleman's poem, “Five Easy Prayers for Pagans":

And forgive, Ye Gods, some humble advice --
these little blessings would suffice
to beget an earthly paradise --
make the bad people good
and the good people nice;
and before our world goes over the brink,
teach the believers how to think.

So, to hell with “Hell.” Or, for that matter, “Heaven.” On the subject of an alleged “afterlife,” here are some things I consider: Even if there were such places, I wouldn't be alive to experience them. What is a fate worse than death? It would be having to live forever. And I've thought about the one question we should ask a believer of any faith. “What do you remember of what happened during the two hours before you were born?” Is it any wonder why believers refuse to think?

Meaning of Life

Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:49:21 +0200

By Rational Logic ~

Some Christians say that the atheist viewpoint on life is that it is ultimately meaningless. They quote Richard Dawkins in Unweaving the Rainbow who hints at such when he says “We are going to die…. how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state…? That prior state he is referring to, is of course is nothingness. If you ultimately return to nothingness and the whole universe will one day be nothingness does that mean life is ultimately meaningless?

To many Christians, William Lane Craig included, feel that if there is no god with no ultimate purpose then everything is ultimately meaningless, even “depressing” according to Dr Craig. And yet, when you look at a beautiful red sunset and a tear rolls down your eye, or you listen to music that uplifts your spirit, or watch children at play and smile, do you feel that life is meaningless? Of course not. It is these very things that give life meaning.

Christians have a different problem on their hands. For a great many unfortunate people in this world, life does indeed seem meaningless. Millions die each year of starvation, disease, war and disaster. If it is the ultimate plan of God that gives meaning to life, yet the vast majority don’t get to go to heaven because they either didn’t believe in god, or believed the wrong god, or the wrong doctrine of the same god, then where is the meaning for them? I think when Christians say their god gives meaning to life, what they mean is God gives them meaning for their life. There is no over arching God gives meaning to life.

Ultimately, the universe does not care whether you live or die. If you want meaning from life you have to find it within yourself. Certainly a non existent god or gods won’t give meaning to you.

Let's be Really Honest

Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:38:09 +0200

By Carl S ~

Do fundamentalist Christians buy vibrators, condoms, birth control pills, pornography? Amazon, ebay, Paypal and Home Shopping Network won't tell. Do they have abortions? But they'll show up in force when they want to make public statements against their own personal choices. After mass tragedies, families and community members buy huge amounts of stuffed animals and flowers, purchased in mourning, to honor the victims. Those are primal responses, originating long before the burial practices of ancient Egypt! And not one Christian is aware the pagans initiated this response: toys and implements were originally buried with the deceased to be used in their afterlives. Now, thousands of years later in a market economy, lamentation, grief, and loss are sales opportunities for businesses taking advantage of the lucrative business of religion. (Doesn't this remind you of Christmas?) After these things, comes the ceremonial praising of a god by survivors, the prattle of victims being “in a better place, with God, becoming angels.” It's no wonder why a non-believer invented the Celebration of Life to be used in place of religious ceremonies.

With or without religions, we act from our nature, despite every attempt by religion to control it. Our lives do not require merely existence, but need experimentation, so we make a lot of junk, like belief systems, before we arrive at something workable. Humans became pawns to religions as soon as they created them. When creators think they have mastery over them, things get seriously out of control. This is bound to happen, since doctrines are gambling ventures contrary to our nature. This happens despite the fact life itself is usually gambling. In order to survive, we just can't help but tempt fate or thwart the wills of gods.

Life is good when we experiment with it. This goes beyond mere temptation. As children, we see how far we can push a parent before we get a reaction. You may steal a candy bar from the store, eat a forbidden fruit to find if it makes you wiser. You might experiment by using any way possible to get solutions for diseases defying our best efforts at eradication. It's called science, derived from “scientia,” meaning: “to know.” The pompous clergy, who condemn scientists, are getting the best of what science has to offer in medical care and technology. No prayer healing or low-tech broadcasting for them!

With or without religions, we act from our nature, despite every attempt by religion to control it.When you got sexually involved for the first time with the right or wrong person, ignoring the warnings of your religion, (touted as that big part of your “whole life”), was it terrible, that “loss of innocence?” Your religion tells you humans were punished by being expelled from an earthly paradise of Eden. So? We're not cut out for a protected “Eden” existence; we'd be bored to death! We dare to “sin.” So? We lie - sometimes we need to lie to find out what's true, just by observing nature alone. So? We notice sex is essential for emotional health; virginity's just a phase. You got a problem with that? Clerics lie continually; their followers don't have a problem with that.

Experimenting can get you mixed up in the wrong crowd, but, if you choose your terms, may cause you to reject them and head for the healthy lifestyle. Experimenting with blasphemy and pornography, like experimenting with new musical forms and writing styles, seems inevitable when they succeed. We tempt life, we mold and manipulate it, (like every other animal does, and in ways no other animal can).

Despite centuries of propaganda trying to convince everyone there's a god involved in every aspect of life, we are left with: shit happens. In the common everyday world, how do people act? According to Annie Laurie Gaylor, most people live as if they're atheists. No religion necessary. No creed. So?

What a Waste

Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:25:09 +0200

By Carl S ~

I'll never back off from saying that churchgoers, “are only telling each other stuff.” I once told a man in his church's parking lot, “You don't really believe a man standing here can float right up into the sky, do you?” But the one thought sticking to me like a burr, means more than any other: “Life is too important to be wasted on religion.”

You'd think that's ridiculous, coming from me, one who has written on religion both here and in letters to the editor, for years. Have I been wasting my time and energy, better spent on just about any other activities, esp. pleasurable ones? Maybe. Do “true believers” have problems wasting their lives on their beliefs? Or are they only exercising their imaginations in mental masturbations? It's like wasting bottles at a shooting range in innocent fun.

I may offend and anger believers. I criticize, disrespect, and mock their beliefs, but I've never incited or encouraged them to torture, deprive another of human rights, properties and freedom to be themselves, or inflict harm on any other in any way. Can you say the same for so many followers of holy scriptures? The “good book” is a manual to commit good and evil. So, why waste time in trying to analyze tar-baby texts, written by primitive or mentally ill ignoramuses?

Religions appear to be invented for waste: wasting time in prayers, wasting the money one earns to support bullshitters, wasting childhood by imposing indoctrination belief in fantasy beings, with so many of those “good ones” examples of the worst of evil. Childhoods are wasted whenever children are taught to obey religious “authorities” to the point of becoming victims of fellatio and rape. Wasted innocent lives result when delusions wage war against reality.

Faith has no grounds for respectThink of centuries spent in time, sweat, the money and misery spent building cathedrals, abbeys, temples, etc., while the populace lived and died in poverty and serfdom. Those efforts and monies should have been spent making their lives better. How many of those “sacred” buildings now lie in ruins, abandoned by their gods and worshippers! Was it fun or entertainment, watching animals being ritually slaughtered by the thousands at a time, for a god or gods? What of the innocent tortured and killed as “witches, heretics, infidels?” What a waste. Was it worth it Jesus, or didn't you see that coming? Millions of emaciated and tortured bodies stack up. The God of the Christians was more powerful than that of the Jews. But the god was the same bloodthirsty role model for both, and did nothing to stop this. Blind beliefs drove and accomplished the Holocaust, beliefs in racism. Faith in a mass murderer, a God or a fuhrer, has consequences. What a waste they both created.

If you investigate all the faiths, all the things humans believe and have believed throughout this world, you're going to conclude: faith has no grounds for respect. Look at the millions of bizzare and unreasonable shit people seriously believe, have believed, the utter nonsense all of them take seriously- even to the point of slaughter. You're really watching macabre comedy. The “holy” examples they extoll are deluded clowns. They're the celebrities of a madhouse run by agents leading seriously deluded flocks. Sacred beliefs are follies of human imagination. If people want to waste their time and lives on them, go ahead, we say: but don't enforce them on the rest of us. We have our own lives and imaginations to create conditions for the betterment of the here, now, and future.

Naturally good and sensitive individuals waste their energies torturing their consciences with thoughts and fears impregnated in their minds by pushers of an all-judgmental god. Lives are wasted in following “his prophets,” in beliefs which deprive others of rights, because, “Those who believe otherwise are enemies?” The gods demand we waste what precious time we have to live, on them.

Answers to Christianity

Fri, 05 Mar 2021 15:16:31 +0200

By Rational Logic ~

Time and again common questions are asked of non believers by Christians. I answer these in this section. Note, many of these questions contain a personal perspective so answer from non believer to non believer will vary.

1) Are you absolutely sure there is no God?

No. When you dig deep into the philosophical nature of knowledge (Which the phrase “are you sure” implies) we cannot honestly say we absolutely know anything. You might be very convinced, but that doesn’t mean you know in an absolute sense. This question also reeks of a pascals wager inference which basically says you should believe in God just to be safe. If you believe and there is no God, no harm done, if you don’t believe and there is God then you spend eternity in hell. There are massive problems with Pascals Wager that I explore in detail in other sections.

So while I am not absolutely sure there is no God, I am fairly confident there isn’t one. Certainly not the God Christians propose, as there is no evidence for such a God. Claims made by Christianity can be falsified (Shown to be untrue). The same goes for any of the Abrahamic Gods.

2) What happens when you die?

That’s it, you die. As far as we can tell, once a person dies they are gone. Their consciousness ceases, and their physical body decays.

3) What if you are wrong and there is an afterlife?

Much like question 1, I’m not absolutely sure there is no afterlife, but if there is then I’d be pleasantly surprised. If the afterlife existed and also a hell then that would prove that the God who created said hell is an immoral dictator who punishes people eternally for the simple crime of not believing on bad evidence. If that is the sort of God you wish to worship, then so be it. At that point I could only rest knowing that I had been honest with myself and others to the best of my abilities.

4) Where do you get your morality from?

Not the Bible! I get it from the same place as anyone else which is the human ability to feel empathy towards others, and ability to make conscious informed decisions about what is good and right. We can see what happens when a person lacks empathy – they commit terrible crimes, or hold horrific views of others while justifying it as moral because an ancient book says its bad. Homosexuality is probably the best and most visible case of a dichotomy between emphatic morals and biblical morals, though there are many other cases. The problem with this question is the inference that only God can give people morals. Yet Christians do not stop to think that this lowers humans to worse base morality than other animals. If God is the only thing that gives you a moral compass then you are, but a puppet on a string who is at the mercy of what ever mortal code God imposes at any time. And if God is the only thing keeping you from being immoral then you already are immoral!

5) If there is no God can we do whatever we want?

This is very similar to question 4 with the inference that without God there is no absolute morality therefore killing and raping isn’t objectively wrong. Again, if you think this then you are already lost – even if you are a born again Christian! We can’t do whatever we want, nor should we. Most people have the innate ability to imagine and feel what it would be like being raped or killed and so knows that is a terrible thing that they wouldn’t wish on anyone. What is interesting though, is what people who claim to have God on their side are capable of. Hitlers religious views are shrouded in the mists of time. This real opinions lost to history. But we do have his writings, and in them he indicates strongly that he believed, at some stage, in the Bible God. It is likely as he became more unhinged he replaced God with himself. Religious to the end. An important fact to note here is that belief in any God has never stopped bad people from doing bad things, just as non belief has never stopped good people from doing good things.

6) If there is no God how does your life have meaning?

This question makes me sad, because it implies that the only thing giving people who believe in God any meaning is their belief. They care not whether that belief is true or not. My life has more meaning since not believing in God. Why is this? Well If there is no God how does your life have meaning?instead of believing I am a predestined son of God going to Heaven for Gods glory one day, I realize that I have but one lifetime to experience life itself. To be the best person I can, to care about others, to live and let live. Once you realize this life is the only life you get, it makes it all the more meaningful. We don’t sit around waiting for God to come take us to heaven. We enjoy life and embrace if for the few short years we have.

7) Where did the Universe come from?

Do you mean the local observable universe, or all possible universes? The cosmos as a whole? We don’t really know, and if there is one thing people hate its not knowing. Our best current science indicates our universe came into space and time from a singularity 13.7 billion years ago. Had any thing existed before, will anything exist again? We just don’t know, and I don’t know is sometimes the best and most honest answer to give. The implication of this question is that it all had to start somehow, and the Christian answer to that is God. However if we apply the same logic then we have to ask the question: Where did God come from? At this point most people will do some hand waving and declare that God doesn’t need an explanation, he always existed. This is special pleading. If the question of where did the universe come from demands an answer, so the the question: Where did God come from?

8) What about miracles?

There are no genuine recorded miracles that can be confirmed, that are not explainable by natural causes. The Biblical stories are just stories without any way of verification. Personal testimony and witness is one of the worst for of verification. Why? Because the human mind is susceptible to all manner of dysfunction that makes people think, see, and hear things that are not real. Also miracles are report across all religions, not just Christianity. We cannot therefore isolate Christianity and declare it is special. How does the Christian respond to other religions miracles? Strangely enough the same way a non believer responds to Christians claims of miracles – doesn’t believe until verification is provided. If you believe in miracles then ask yourself; why has God never healed an amputee? Cancers are healed, keys are found, people are saved. Yet a limb never grows back. Why? Because all other ‘miracles’ occur naturally, even if they are improbable. Improbable is not the same as impossible. For a miracle to be confirmed it would have to be impossible to occur naturally.

9) How come every society has religion?

Rather a strange question considering that if God was real, and has truly revealed himself to everyone as is claimed in the bible, then one might wonder why there are other religions. The real answer however lies in evolution, and mans discomfort with not knowing. The evolutionary side comes in with the ability for humans to formulate answers to questions we can’t answer. We hate not knowing, so we come up with an explanation. If a natural one is not readily available we will create a supernatural one. Lightening: Bolts from Zeus, earthquakes: God is angry. Crops failing: punishment for not pleasing a God. As time has progressed, so has religions. Religion shows up outside a belief in a particular God: political ideology comes close to religion at times, as does cultural movements. Humans find it advantageous o gather around others who share the same beliefs -this creates a bond in societies where everyone knows what everyone else believes in. When this is taken away people get extremely uncomfortable. That is why societies across the world have created religions.

10) Do you really believe the world would be better off without religion?

I find this a complicated question. Religion has done much harm – and the religious need to acknowledge that. However, religion has also done much good. Some people need a religion in order to function in their daily lives. It gives their lives meaning. Certainly the belief in a higher power has taken people off the streets, and given them purpose and meaning. Given the resources and numbers available to religion this is perhaps not surprising. The day may come when secular resources are just as well equipped for dealing with peoples needs and religion ceases to play such an important role. I certainly think that if fundamental literalist religion disappeared the world would be better off. These are the religious views that allow people to fly planes into buildings, and deny science in the face of facts in order to cling to a literal interpretation of their particular holy book. These versions of religion certainly do much harm and humans would be better off without them.

I Was Free Born -- My Story

Mon, 08 Feb 2021 20:00:35 +0200

By Rational Logic ~

Religious History

I was a Christian from birth for 32 1/2 years of my life. When I was born my parents were in a non denominational church which followed the teachings of a Pentecostal (Ex Baptist) divine healing preacher. Several years after I was born my parents left the church over doctrinal disagreements and started house meetings. This continued for some years with the group being a lose affiliation. After sometime my father felt the leading of the spirit to become the pastor of this small group and thus founded the church that would influence my entire adult life up to this point. Over the years the church dynamic has changed, but has maintained its basic identity as what is best described as a non denominational Christian church heavily influenced by the doctrine of the afore mentioned Pentecostal preacher.

First Doubts

While I would have never considered myself a very religious Christian e.g. I have never religiously read the bible or prayed every-single-day-without-a-beat. I did, however, whole heartedly believe in what the church taught. As I grew older and was exposed to the odd outside bits of information I became aware of worldviews and scientific facts that didn’t correspond to my ‘biblical reality’. However, for the most part I put these doubts aside. After moving into town and taking up university level study I was exposed to even more outside information.

The first real cracks, however, were from inside the church, from the pastor in fact. For whatever reason we moved on from previously held beliefs about the divine healing preacher and the ‘truth’ of what he said were questioned and overturned. An important note, the church still held he was a man of God, just not quite the Prophet we were for many years led to believe. This started a questioning in my mind of, well if we, or God, or the pastor was wrong about him for all those years what else are we wrong about? This moving away occurred when I was about 21. I would once again put aside doubts and trust in God up until around October 2015 when I was 32.

The Questioning

In October 2015 the entire family would go on a cruise ship for a holiday. There was one particular day that was very rough, we were not allowed out on the upper decks so I went to the library. There I found and read a book by Z. Sitchin who proposed that ancient writings of the Sumerians about the Annunaki were telling actual events of an alien species that created humans long ago. Further research proved that Sitchin’s assertions were largely incorrect, but it did let me know that there were ancient writings out there – writings that contained stories similar to the ones in the Bible. I got very interested in the Nephalim, the Annunaki, the planet Nibiru etc. and how they related to the Bible. If you have no idea what I’m talking about at this point, don’t worry you are not missing out on much. This all lead me to a lot of researching and watching documentaries surrounding the subject. These didn’t impact on my belief in God, because for the most part it was mumbo jumbo nonsense. What did happen however, as does with the internet these days, is I ended up watching some scientific documentaries about archaeology in regards to ancient Israel. As a believer I fully expected any archaeological documentary about Israel to confirm Biblical history, which I believed was the most accurate history of the earth as well as God’s word to his chosen few. What I found really rocked me. As I now know, there is very little archaeological evidence to support anything in the Bible.

The Debates Stage

A few months after the cruise I started watching formal religious debates on youtube. The first debate I watched was an Intelligence Squared debate titled Is Islam a Religion of Peace with Ayaan Hirsi Ali debating against the motion. What was important about this debate was it opened up knowledge of another major religion and the method of critical thinking the debaters against the motion used. What applied here, if one was honest, should also apply to Christianity. This brought me to Christian vs Atheist debates. Frank Turek vs Christopher Hitchens debating Does God Exist would be the first of many, and introduced me to the powerhouse that was Christopher Hitchens. I would go on to watch many many debates, and over time noticed that when pushed for answers the Christians would fall back many a time to a logical fallacy. Special pleading, God of the gaps, begging the question, false dichotomies etc were employed time and again by Christians.

Digging Deeper

During this time I began to probe deeper looking for answers. The account in Genesis had been thrown into doubt so I looked at scientific explanations. I would discover that there was no scientific evidence for Noah’s flood, or any archaeological or historical evidence for 2 million Hebrew slaves leaving Egypt. Furthermore calculations showing what would be necessary for some events recorded in the Bible to be real were staggeringly improbable. I came across questions I had never thought to ask. How much water would be required to cover the entire earth to the height of Mount Everest? How much water per day would be necessary for 2 million Hebrews in the desert? The answers to these cast even more doubt on the inerrancy of scripture. I also started studying ancient mythologies, discovering many similarities between both the stories told, and the development of the various religions around the world. At the later stage of my de-conversion process I would look into the history of the New Testament and Jesus. This would at the very least throw serious doubt as to whether what was recorded in the Bible actually happened.

The Realisation (That I didn’t believe) and De-Conversion

At some point in May/June of 2016 while at work thinking about the information I came across I had a gut wrenching realisation that I no longer believed what was written in the Bible. My first thoughts were that in my search I had lost my faith and that the fault was mine. I became terrified that God would judge me for being an unbeliever and would punish me. At this point I was having something of a crisis of faith, I hadn’t unequivocally lost my belief in God. I kept searching for answers, something that would provide information that would get my belief back. But the more I dug, the more I realised that there was no basis even for the New Testament. Very few Christian apologetics made any significant points that countered the growing evidence against the Bible. Peter Hitchens made a few great points during an Oxford debate that were not Bible based, but his own conviction, which up to that point I felt was one of the best arguments for Christianity. However Peter failed to make a strong case for God. Around September/October 2016, while still not having a solid opinion on all that I had learned, I accepted that I didn’t believe the Bible, or God, the Devil, Angels, Demons, Heaven, or Hell. Not the Christian version, the Islamic version, the Hindi version or the Greek version. I concluded that they are all religions made up in the minds of humans, propagated via religious leaders to the masses who taught their children that their religion was the truth, the one true and only truth.

Post De-Conversion

This will naturally be an on going tale, but for this section, this is the immediate after affect, telling the family, and hopefully a few enlightenment’s for those who find themselves in a similar position. Telling the family of my non belief and leaving the church was I think the hardest most painful thing I have ever done, and may ever have to do. What possibly didn’t help was the fact I just told my parents over dinner. There was no hints or warnings or suspicion that I might be having doubts. Perhaps they were blind to it, because in my mind I thought I had laid in hints over the months that I was having doubts. Apparently this wasn’t enough and it was like a frag grenade going off. Some family members were quite hysterical, claiming they were having chest pains because of me as if their reaction was my fault. As I would later learn, this is a common defense mechanism to a challenge to dearly held beliefs. It was a rough few months, but as often happens time heals, or at least allows an acceptable existence. My family and I have largely come to the agreement that we don’t discuss religious matters. They don’t try and reconvert me, and I don’t tell them why their beliefs are wrong. During this time I joined certain forums and support groups which helped immeasurably. For a person who had no decent contacts outside of the church group it was a lonely time and the online communities helped ease the pain. As of writing I am still involved with various groups and seek to help others. Like me, they having lost their faith and started their journey out of religion need support. I hope this story helps someone else on their journey out of religion as they realize they were not born a Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim, but that they were free born.

Website: https://iwasfreeborn.wordpress.com/

The name of Jesus

Wed, 03 Feb 2021 22:18:35 +0200

By MarkStephen ~

My name is Mark. If I move to Mexico my name does not become Marcos, it will always be Mark. I understand that Jesus’ name was Yeshua in the Hebrew language, which translates to Joshua in English. Where did the name Jesus come from? Jesus, this supposed all important figure in the history of Western civilization, and yet Jesus was not this man’s name in his native tongue. This man, Jesus, the alleged word of God, the Bible, states that he was the Only begotten son of God. It seems to me, that if this were true that his name would be extremely important. So, even before any critical investigative inquiry of the Christian religion, the name Jesus is fraudulent from the start.

I believe, of course I don’t know, that there very well may have been a man, Yeshua, but he was no Christian and probably had no intention of starting another religion. According to the biblical account he was a Jew. He transcended his own religion. But he was no Christian and his name was not Jesus.

When Evidence Creates a Crisis of Faith

Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:05:37 +0200

By Carl S ~

Got some emails from a Fundamentalist Christian woman recently. They were products of fundy organizations. I couldn't download them, and told her so, adding: “If you voted for a man who ordered children must be torn from their parents arms and imprisoned, then shame on you.” Her response told me I had no business talking about voting for compassion (as I said in a letter to the editor),when I voted for a man who okayed “252 babies torn from their mothers wombs at birth, and having their limbs torn off.” I asked her to show me evidence for that, adding, “Don't send me any more b.s.” She answered, We are through; don't bother her any more. I responded, again, asking for evidence, and added, “666 children. Shame.” I understand she's another victim of a lie her president kept repeating. It's a shame she's suffering because of bullshit. She's very vulnerable because she's high-strung, and Christian media makes a hell of a lot of money by keeping its followers anxious. You ask yourself how do loving parents come across as indifferent to the sufferings of 666 traumatized imprisoned children? But what can you say to someone who worships a god who punishes children for the infractions of their parents, a god who commits genocide which includes drowning infants, children, and pregnant women? Her evangelical propaganda media exists to keep believers entertained, agitated and anxious. This “salvation” supplies a steady supply of uppers and downers.

Only too many Christians and Catholics feel no shame about the evils they inflict. She is among the millions of already indoctrinated Americans who sincerely believe the b.s. her president repeatedly tells. It's preferable to believe in him than looking for the evidence, which, easily found, contradicts him. This is understandable. The Christian propaganda she unquestionably accepts is “repeating the lie so many times until it becomes the truth.” Blind addiction to lies is a habit called “faith.” Accepting evidence often creates a crisis of faith not only to unexamined beliefs, but to trust in that liar. She, and other true believers, won't go there.

Now, what of Christians and their alleged loyalty to Jesus? I've debated both with myself and my friend, about why they believe things obviously not true. We have just about concluded: Because they want to. Facts can't move them. We're dealing with an intransigent tradition with millions of people rejecting facts and preferring to believe lies. Is Trump more popular than Jesus to them? Their actions support him, ignore his evils, and contradict their savior's teachings of mercy, compassion, and tolerance. They've sold their conscience to men who have none, and to one man who feeds hatred and is condemned by the Jesus of their gospels. He doesn't even need to conquer death, feed thousands, or raise the dead. He reminds me of Gore Vidal’s “Messiah,” the fictional John Cave, who inadvertently creates a new religion that replaces Christianity in the USA.

The Christian propaganda she unquestionably accepts is “repeating the lie so many times until it becomes the truth.” Blind addiction to lies is a habit called “faith.” It's no surprise true believers throw their allegiance behind a man who preaches alternative realities, for Trump is just as familiar as a clergy member, priest, imam. and pope. What is the difference between his constantly repeating lies, making up shit without any evidence, and the patterns of religion? What are the differences between “Obama was not born in the USA, Moslems were dancing in the streets after 9/11, the election was rigged, Biden sanctioned newborns ripped out of the wombs of their mothers,” etc. and “born of a virgin, he rose from the dead, those who were buried came out of their graves, were seen walking by many, or that there were 500 witnesses of the risen Christ?” Do you see the pattern here? Irrationality became sacred. All of his ramblings and rantings, like those of religions, are claims to truths without an atom of evidence. And the believers are unaware: It's the same con. They're being exploited, think they're privy to special revelations, while following like sheep to the slaughter, even as they love being used.

Religions are where the power of imagination triumphs over evidence. The most ardent believers insist the only important truth is in how the believer feels. The feelings of others who disagree, or who are of different opinions, are ignored, insulted, and where possible, suppressed. Evidence is destructive of faith and superstition and creates disruptive crises of faith those without faith can't understand. And we see the same reactions whenever evidence contradicts or challenges the faith this president's many followers exhibit, immersed as they are in his alternative reality, his unrelenting-tsunami-of-lies cult. This cult is the result of one more charismatic individual raised to adoration by an audience that can't get enough of him.

The Trump Cult addiction will be with us for a long time for the same reasons Christianity survives. Will it, like the cults of Christ, Paul, Stalin, Koresh, etc, lead to violence? There are likely millions of people afraid of change, fearful of giving up their fantasies for constantly discovered real information about what is true and not. Will Christian Supremacists seek more power? When evidence creates a crisis of faith, faith rejects it. And we'll have to hold it to account by constantly pushing back with reality checks. Lots of luck. This also is reality.

I was an Apostolic Pentecostal...

Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:33:39 +0200

By OnlyAGhost ~

I was an Apostolic Pentecostal who left Christianity after 30 years. I was born and raised in it.

Now being a bit of a nerd and antisocial I had a hard enough time making friends and acquaintances, but, growing up, the amount of people in my life were limited. I was mostly homeschooled and spent high school in a small Pentecostal private school.

My limited social network (and the possibility of some personality disorders) had caused me to live a fairly lonely life. It made relationships difficult to find, and even more to keep. I was definitely an oddball amongst them, and I never actually dated until I was about 24. By then I was able to live my own life, but I was still indoctrinated. However, loneliness drove me to look outside my denomination. My first girlfriend was Baptist.

At around 30, I went to prison. I don't want to talk about what I did. I am quite ashamed. I spent 5 years locked up while almost every one of my Christian friends abandoned me. I was already having doubts about my faith before prison: no answered prayers, my limited social upbringing, the hatred of others that christians show, and noticing the inconsistencies of Christianity. Prison gave me time to study the "holy bible" with a Strong's concordance + Greek and Hebrew dictionary.

I first tore apart my own denomination, then moving on to christianity itself. I realized how brutal this god is and how christians have no free will. I gave up on studying, then pursued facts.

I started off calling myself Agnostic. I felt that there still might be a higher power, just not any that we know of. Slowly, with the help of Atheists on YouTube, I changed my stance to Atheist and Humanist.

I've been looking for communities that share my ideals, so that life won't be quite as lonely anymore.

Interview with (former Christian) Susan, pt. 1

Tue, 13 Oct 2020 21:22:23 +0200

By Harmonic Atheist ~

Today I spoke with Susan, a friend whom I have known for over 30 years. We met in kindergarten, and remained good friends for many years as we attended Christian school together, where part of our indoctrination occurred. We were also heavily involved in Bible quizzing, when we memorized hundreds of verses.

We discussed Susan's deconversion from Christianity, including the ways that the Christian worldview--especially the fundamentalist Christian one--hurts and emotionally scars people who grow up in it. We talked about the cracks that appear early in life, which are painful to work through, but which ultimately help people to think more rationally, to realize that Christianity is mythology and that the Christian god is not actually real, and to truly begin to live their lives for the first time.

We have lots more to share! Stay tuned for part 2, coming shortly.

Thanks to Susan for her vulnerability, realness, wisdom, sensitivity, and love for life.

Leaving Evangelical Christianity - An Intro

Sun, 11 Oct 2020 21:41:20 +0200

By Dee the Humanist ~

I'm an ex-Christian and this is a brief overview of how I started asking questions that led to my deconversion from Christianity 4 years ago.

How Scary Was It to Leave Christianity?

Sun, 11 Oct 2020 21:39:13 +0200

By FlyingOverTr0ut ~

I was raised under the backwards teachings of Christianity which, when I took them seriously, left me confused, alone, sick, and disabled. I talk about how painful it was to leave, how necessary that choice was, and how it had many consequences for me.

WHY I LEFT CHRISTIANITY and RELIGION for GOOD

Sun, 11 Oct 2020 21:38:30 +0200

By Kelita Sahliah ~

In this video I get to the point of why I left religion. I was part of the seventh day adventist church, and I have gladly left. I shar with you my experience of leaving christianity, I am now free from religion, christianity, and the bible, for good! I am so glad I am no longer a christian and I am free from it all!

10 Reasons People Are Leaving Christianity

Fri, 09 Oct 2020 18:02:55 +0200

By Friendly Atheist ~